Can anyone confirm or deny that CAP or bomber escorts are in the game? I’d rather not see either.
@Flying:
Can anyone confirm or deny that CAP or bomber escorts are in the game? I’d rather not see either.
Then you’ll be pleased.
/Krieghund
Thanks for the correction, I edited my post. Are the tech specifications correct? I’m especially uncertain about HBMBs, at Smorey Swamp they wrote two dice in both attack and SBR but at BGG Ryan Hanson wrote that it’s only two dice in SBR!
That you choose chart when you succeed gives you some flexibility, but I guess Germany and Soviet Union will choose the Land/Production chart almost always. Japan would be the power that can make a choice, as “Improved production”, “Mechanized infantry” are techs that could bring the Tank factories in Manchuria and Kwangtung back from the dead and be as powerful as they were in AAR. Most of the time though, I think US, UK and Japan will pick Air/Naval chart. I don’t see how Italy can afford techs.
Thanks for the correction, I edited my post. Are the tech specifications correct? I’m especially uncertain about HBMBs, at Smorey Swamp they wrote two dice in both attack and SBR but at BGG Ryan Hanson wrote that it’s only two dice in SBR!
Some of them are correct, and some of them aren’t. I’ll give out more info a little at a time. Half the fun is speculation (at least for some folks), and I don’t want to ruin anyone’s fun. (I’m sure I’ll get some negative karma from some of the other folks for this, but apparently that’s the price of being me.)
Heavy bombers get two dice in both SBR and combat, but only when attacking.
So, Krieghund, you’re teasing us… :wink:
I think there’s something fishy going on with the HBMB tech. On land, “Radar” is a partial counter, as you can see:
BMB vs. AA
4 - 1/6X 4 = 3.33 effective attack
HBMB vs. AA
8 - 1/6X 8 = 6.66
HBMB vs. radar-AA
8 - 1/3X 8 = 5.33
But at sea, HBMB on their own would totally unbalance the whole tactical situation. If this has been countered in techs, you could have either of these;
“Supercarriers - carriers may now carry AA-guns”
“Jet fighters - when defending, fighters roll two dice”
So, Krieghund, you’re teasing us… :wink:
In a good way, I hope.
Heavy Bombers have always been a “jackpot” tech (except in LHTR). At least now they’re back to be acquired randomly. Getting them specifically in Revised really was a game breaker.
Two dice in defense for Jet Power? That’s too much.
Well, if Jet fighters still defend on a ‘5’, I guess a gang of those could be a counter to HBMB, but again only partially.
4 jet fighters= cost 40 IPCs, defence 20.
3 HBMBs=cost 39 IPCs, attack 24.
And you still have to buy carriers for those jets! I would have been more happy with HBMBs attacking at 5 and doing two dice of SBR damage.
Heavy bombers is not that unballanced in land fights even without AA-gun.
If you record punch/cost the Heavy bomber (assuming the bomber costs 12 points) 8/12=2/3, which compared to the artellery (1/2 or 3/4 if you count support) and tanks is not that insane.
But in sea battles, HB is realy powerfull.
What I think is strange is the repair IC technology. For Japan, Italy and US its definitivly totaly useless as the most probably will never ever get bombed at all, and it is probably useless for UK/russia too as I dont see Germany wanting to build Bombers instead of cheap land-based units. Its only germany which can ‘benefit’ from this technology and that only
if UK/US bombs them.
So my geuss is that this is one of the ‘wrong’ technologies.
The improved production might be realy fun in special situations. For Japan it is definitly nice. For US & Italy it is probably totaly waste. For UK it might be nice, but only if you at the time you get it have build a few extra factories. For Russia it might be neat to be able to crank out land-units closer to the front. Likewise it might be nice for the german player, but only if he is capable of holding one of the factories in Russia.
So in genall Improved production is useless for 2 countries, might be handy for 3 and wonderfull for japan.
Radar is likewise neat for Germany (killing fighters and bombers when the allies invades france…) but useless in extremly many situations.
For this reason we use LHTR!
I don’t really see two dice as too powerful. AARe restored them to two dice after LHTR nerfed them.
Remember, they still defend with one die at one and they cannot be put on carriers. So not only do you need to find the technology but also be able to afford the bombers and be in a strong enough position that you do not have to worry about being beaten back after you buy a bunch of bombers.
Bombers cost 13 BTW.
If they are too powerful you just increase the cost to buy a researcher to roll for them.
the idea that all techs ‘cost’ the same amount to develop is not correct. some should be more strong than others, so even by using the balance reasoning over historical, you may want to make a few changes to account for differences in tech strengths
Come on. Heavy bombers are not that insanly powerfull. If you realy want to nerf Heavy bombers, change it so that heavy bombers only uses 2 dices in land attacks ONLY!
In land combat, having 1 artellery and 3 infanteri is by far a stronger army than 1 heavy bomber, both on ofensive and defensive. The bomber gives you flexibility, and it can retreat from combat into a safe potition. With the heavy artellery, the combination 1 artellery and 3 infanteri gives you marginaly less punch, but you can soak up a lot of more cassulties. And even if you concider 2 artellery and 6 infanteri versus 1 artellery, 3 infanteri and 1 HB, the first will be a better attack! Not to speak of AA and possible radars… On land Heavy bombers is not even close to insane. Good, yes but not insanly good.
Besides, you cannot GET heavy bombers. You get a random technology! And if you invest 5pt, you will in average get a technology in 6 turns. So it takes a long time, and you got to be lucky.
Well, it’s there if we like it or not. I think this will influence strategy a lot. US can spend 10 IPCs per turn on tech and get a tech every second turn. This way they will get HBMB in the majority of games.
Maybe Germany and Japan will be more or less forced to do research to counter this risk. Germany to go for Radar and IC repair and Japan for Jets or HBMBs. Germany and Japan gets a lot of IPCs from national objectives, but they might be forced to put this into research if they will be able to stand up to the US in the later turns of the game!
Craig’s right. The real power of Heavy Bombers is felt in SBRs. It’s just too easy in OOB Revised for the US to get them, then use them to pound Germany into the ground. However, since techs are going back to random acquirement in Anniversary, and there are other techs that can counter their SBR power, it shouldn’t be as much of a problem there.
I do not like the rando tech rule in Classic. I like more the way tech improvemente are handled in Revised: you select what are looking for. There are the problem that you may “waste” IPC if not rolling the requested value.
Said this, I think that the rule for tech in Anniversary are interesting for two motivation.
First the tech are powerful enough to be “reasearched” and IPC are not “wasted” they are a sort of investment that soon or later will give some result. Second point is that being powerful it is also useful that they are random selected but having two categories to select where rolling the player may decide which “type” of technology to go after.
This two motivation may allows player to investe moderate quantities of IPCs in the first turns, that will give a benefits in later rounds.
Craig’s right. The real power of Heavy Bombers is felt in SBRs. It’s just too easy in OOB Revised for the US to get them, then use them to pound Germany into the ground. However, since techs are going back to random acquirement in Anniversary, and there are other techs that can counter their SBR power, it shouldn’t be as much of a problem there.
Can you be more specific about how to counter cheaper bombers inflicting more damage than in any other version of A&A (IPC and production damage at the same time). Of all the speculation I have heard about the new game, this one bothers me the most.
@Cmdr:
I don’t really see two dice as too powerful. AARe restored them to two dice after LHTR nerfed them.
For those of you unfamiliar with AARe (Enhanced), this change was made since there are counters to heavy bombers. For example, Jet power tech enables defending ftrs to intercept bombers. In Enhanced, for every move, there is a counter.
Two dice were needed to make HB’s powerful enough to actualy make a difference, especially in naval battles.
I do not like the rando tech rule in Classic. I like more the way tech improvemente are handled in Revised: you select what are looking for. There are the problem that you may “waste” IPC if not rolling the requested value.
I like it because during war a nation does not just research 1 special weapon at a time. There are multiple projects going on, so who is to say which one is going to hit gold first? The randomness of it is more real to life.
If I had my way the weapons development would be built into an event card system. I believe no one should have to invest ipcs into research because I think it should be assumed that the research is always going on and your ipcs are actually the army/navy/air force budget not the research budget. The event cards would be setup “slightly” to favor Germany and USA over Japan and Russia. Something like a 1/4 chance as compared to 1/5.
Craig’s right. The real power of Heavy Bombers is felt in SBRs. It’s just too easy in OOB Revised for the US to get them, then use them to pound Germany into the ground. However, since techs are going back to random acquirement in Anniversary, and there are other techs that can counter their SBR power, it shouldn’t be as much of a problem there.
Can you be more specific about how to counter cheaper bombers inflicting more damage than in any other version of A&A (IPC and production damage at the same time). Of all the speculation I have heard about the new game, this one bothers me the most.
SBRs don’t inflict IPC damage directly. They only damage the IC. This gives the victim the flexibility to spend only as much on IC repairs as is necessary to produce the number of units he/she can afford to build, or to not repair the IC at all if they don’t need to use it right away (or if it’s about to fall into enemy hands). If you capture an IC, you inherit any damage that may be on it, so you must repair it before you can use it.
Craig’s right. The real power of Heavy Bombers is felt in SBRs. It’s just too easy in OOB Revised for the US to get them, then use them to pound Germany into the ground. However, since techs are going back to random acquirement in Anniversary, and there are other techs that can counter their SBR power, it shouldn’t be as much of a problem there.
Can you be more specific about how to counter cheaper bombers inflicting more damage than in any other version of A&A (IPC and production damage at the same time). Of all the speculation I have heard about the new game, this one bothers me the most.
SBRs don’t inflict IPC damage directly. They only damage the IC. This gives the victim the flexibility to spend only as much on IC repairs as is necessary to produce the number of units he/she can afford to build, or to not repair the IC at all if they don’t need to use it right away (or if it’s about to fall into enemy hands). If you capture an IC, you inherit any damage that may be on it, so you must repair it before you can use it.
Yes, in theory they both don’t occur at the same time, but in practicallity, Germany will need to use it’s full IC capability MOST of the time (especially since Italy is now 1 IC). So that’s both in my eyes. Does Germany have more than 1 IC now? Where are they and what are their capabilities?
