@axis-dominion 😀 Works! And it continues!
L22 #1 trulpen (X+6) vs ArtofWar1947 (A) P2V
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Mainly I think it’s about the sea zone being hostile. 3A is likely not so good at managing these situations.
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I mean, scrambled air does make the sea zone hostile.
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It does not matter so much though, except that the units would then be stuck on the tr.
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From the notes to BM4:
“* (PE) You may not conduct an amphibious assault from an allied transport if the defender could scramble and you have no other combat units to protect that transport.”
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The note is a bit wrong though. You should be able to do an amphi, but if there’s a scramble it will simply be stopped.
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I just ran another sim, and the scramble did not stop the UK infantry and art from landing or have any effect on the US transport. My planning of the US-16 and UK-16 turns was based, in no small part, on this premise. Really tired of the arcane rules that cannot be found in one place and an AA program that does accurately represent rules… Will check with a moderator about how handle this after I get some sleep.
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We can just decide that you can go on with the attack. IT simplifies things and moves the game along, so I allow it.
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L22 #1 trulpen (+6) vs AoW P2V.tsvg
Game History
Round: 16
Purchase Units - Italians Italians buy nothing; Remaining resources: 6 PUs; Combat Move - Italians 1 infantry moved from Gorky to Komi Italians take Komi from Russians Combat - Italians Non Combat Move - Italians Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Changing ownership of Tambov from British to Italians EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 2 armour moved from Tula to Stalingrad 1 infantry moved from Tula to Tambov Turn Complete - Italians Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 8 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 99 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,5,2,2,2,6 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 95 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,1 Italians collect 9 PUs (8 lost to blockades); end with 15 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
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L22 #1 trulpen (+6) vs AoW P2V.tsvg
Game History
Round: 17
Research Technology - Germans Purchase Units - Germans Germans repair damage of 1x factory_major; Remaining resources: 105 PUs; Germans buy 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 1 destroyer and 26 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat Move - Germans 1 infantry moved from Samara to Urals Germans take Urals from Russians 1 infantry moved from Stalingrad to Kazakhstan 2 infantry moved from Stalingrad to Northern Caucasus 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Stalingrad to Kazakhstan 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Stalingrad to Northern Caucasus 2 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Ukraine 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Stalingrad to Ukraine 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Stalingrad to Northern Caucasus 1 tactical_bomber moved from Stalingrad to Kazakhstan 1 tactical_bomber moved from Stalingrad to Northern Caucasus 30 artilleries and 47 infantry moved from Russia to Smolensk Germans take Smolensk from Russians 1 infantry moved from Leningrad to Novgorod Germans take Novgorod from Russians 1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Greece 1 infantry moved from Albania to Greece 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Greece 1 bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Ukraine 1 bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Kazakhstan 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Greece Combat - Germans Battle in Greece Germans attack with 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers Americans defend with 1 airfield and 1 infantry Germans roll dice for 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Greece, round 2 : 3/6 hits, 2,67 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 infantry in Greece, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Greece Germans win, taking Greece from Americans with 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry Battle in Ukraine Germans attack with 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber British defend with 1 factory_minor and 1 infantry Germans roll dice for 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Ukraine, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 2,00 expected hits British roll dice for 1 infantry in Ukraine, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Ukraine Germans win, taking Ukraine from British with 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Casualties for British: 1 infantry Battle in Kazakhstan Germans attack with 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 infantry Germans roll dice for 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Kazakhstan, round 2 : 4/5 hits, 2,33 expected hits Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Kazakhstan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Kazakhstan Germans win, taking Kazakhstan from Russians with 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for British: 1 infantry Battle in Northern Caucasus Germans attack with 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers Russians defend with 2 infantry Germans roll dice for 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Northern Caucasus, round 2 : 3/7 hits, 3,17 expected hits Russians roll dice for 2 infantry in Northern Caucasus, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Northern Caucasus Germans win, taking Northern Caucasus from Russians with 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Casualties for Russians: 2 infantry Trigger Germans Destroy Factories Urals: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Germans in Urals Non Combat Move - Germans Trigger Urals Has Fallen to Germans Switch: Setting switch to false for conditionAttachment_Russian_Urals_Factory_May_Be_Destroyed attached to Germans 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kazakhstan to Stalingrad 1 bomber moved from Kazakhstan to Stalingrad 2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Northern Caucasus to Stalingrad 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Ukraine to Stalingrad 3 fighters moved from Eire to Western Germany 1 battleship, 3 carriers, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 1 submarine and 5 transports moved from 114 Sea Zone to 116 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland 1 infantry moved from Leningrad to Baltic States 1 infantry moved from Germany to Poland 1 aaGun moved from Bessarabia to Romania 1 bomber moved from Ukraine to Yugoslavia 1 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Albania 1 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Bulgaria 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yugoslavia to 116 Sea Zone 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Greece to Yugoslavia 1 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Slovakia Hungary 1 artillery and 9 infantry moved from Western Germany to Germany 2 aaGuns moved from Russia to Smolensk 1 infantry moved from Leningrad to Vologda 2 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Slovakia Hungary Place Units - Germans 1 airfield and 3 infantry placed in Stalingrad 3 infantry placed in Russia 1 artillery and 9 infantry placed in Germany 2 infantry placed in Yugoslavia 1 destroyer placed in 99 Sea Zone 9 infantry placed in Western Germany Turn Complete - Germans Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 4 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 99 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,2,5,1,6,2 Germans collect 64 PUs (4 lost to blockades); end with 64 PUs Trigger Germans 7 Atlantic Wall: Germans met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 67 PUs Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 72 PUs Objective Germans 2 Control Stalingrad Or Leningrad Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 15 PUs; end with 87 PUs Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Western Germany: 1 infantry EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Leningrad: 1 infantry EDIT: Turning off Edit ModeCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Americans regular : -0,33
Russians regular : 0,00
Germans regular : 1,83
British regular : 0,67
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Gamerman wrote back: Hi Art! I can’t find any rules about this in the BM4 notes in Triple A. I actually can’t remember about this rule. Can Trulpen say where this scramble vs. unescorted amphibious assault rule is?
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@artofwar1947 said in L22 #1 trulpen (X+6) vs ArtofWar1947 (A) P2V:
Gamerman wrote back: Hi Art! I can’t find any rules about this in the BM4 notes in Triple A. I actually can’t remember about this rule. Can Trulpen say where this scramble vs. unescorted amphibious assault rule is?
Regarding amphi:
“The sea zone may be either friendly or hostile, but if it is hostile it must be made friendly through sea combat before the amphibious assault can commence. […] Further, if enemy air units could potentially be scrambled to defend the sea zone, additional units may be moved into the sea zone to combat them in case they are indeed scrambled.” (2nd ed, p 14)
Regarding scramble:
“These air units can be scrambled to help friendly units in adjacent sea zones that have come under attack. They can also be scrambled to resist amphibious assaults from adjacent sea zones, whether or not the territory being assaulted is the territory containing the air base. They may defend against the enemy ships conducting the amphibious assault even if friendly ships are not present.” (2nd ed, p 16)
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L22 #1 trulpen (+6) vs artw P2V.tsvg
Game History
Round: 17
Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 3 artilleries, 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 6 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber; Remaining resources: 3 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 1 infantry moved from Honan to Inner Mongolia Japanese take Inner Mongolia from Chinese 3 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Yenisey Japanese take Yenisey from Russians 1 destroyer moved from 46 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 46 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from 46 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone Combat - Japanese Battle in 56 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 5 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers Americans defend with 1 submarine Japanese roll dice for 1 destroyer, 5 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers in 56 Sea Zone, round 2 : 6/9 hits, 4,83 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 56 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits 1 submarine owned by the Americans lost in 56 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 destroyer, 5 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for Americans: 1 submarine Non Combat Move - Japanese 2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 1 marine moved from Dutch New Guinea to 46 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Japan to 7 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to French Indo China 5 infantry moved from Honan to Hopei 2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hopei 1 infantry moved from Shantung to Jehol 2 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe 2 artilleries moved from Hunan to Hopei 1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Hunan 1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi 1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Hopei 1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi 2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Yunnan to Burma 2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 bomber moved from Southern Manchuria to French Indo China 1 bomber moved from Buryatia to French Indo China 1 submarine moved from 76 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 4 carriers, 1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 46 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone 5 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 56 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 132 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 46 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 2 artilleries, 1 destroyer, 4 infantry and 3 transports moved from 46 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone 3 infantry moved from 43 Sea Zone to Java 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 2 transports moved from 7 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 tactical_bomber moved from 7 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 fighter moved from Japan to French Indo China 1 submarine moved from 7 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone 1 carrier and 2 destroyers moved from 7 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone Place Units - Japanese 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber placed in Japan 1 carrier and 1 destroyer placed in 6 Sea Zone 3 artilleries placed in French Indo China 3 infantry placed in Kwangtung 3 infantry placed in Shantung Turn Complete - Japanese Japanese collect 70 PUs; end with 73 PUs Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 76 PUs Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 81 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Americans regular : -0,17
Japanese regular : 1,17
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Sorry, this rules question was confusing at first -
I didn’t know you were playing Path To Victory, so the sea zones Art mentioned didn’t make sense. I’m now pulling up the map, and see the situation.
The rules you point out, trulpen, are in the 2nd edition rulebook and I don’t think they are covering the situation of allied ground units getting off the transports of another power. I guess that’s why BM4 rules apply (P2V uses BM4 rules? I don’t remember), which is why you’re saying the BM4 rules say that “you may not conduct an amphibious assault from an allied transport if the defender could scramble and you have no other combat units to protect that transport.”I know you just allowed it and facilitated the game, but I’m interested in this question. I guess I never did move on to BM4 myself so wasn’t totally aware of each of the amendments made. It does sound like a needed rule - after all, it happened right here in this game.
So if PTV uses BM4 rules, then I agree with trulpen that the UK inf and art can’t attack Scotland and no planes have to be scrambled to stop them. Interesting.
But to be clear, I’m not saying anything has to be done about it - trulpen agreed to allow it.
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Actually, I think atleast one fig would have to be scrambled in order to precent the amphi. Otherwise the sz would be friendly. I believe the notes to BM4 is simply wrong regarding this. If not, it doesn’t really make any sense.
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You’d have to check with the ones who came up with the rule to be sure, but it’s written pretty clearly that you don’t have to scramble.
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Hmm, it’s actually not a strict rule, but it’s a note. They have been rephrased before. If we look at the rulebook, I think it’s pretty clear you don’t prevent an amphi by only the threat of a scramble.
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The note for a scramble stopping the invasion from a non-invader’s TT needs to be in more than BM4 notes for those of us do not play BM4 or (BM3).
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