WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies

@regularkid Thanks. TBH, I’ve been playing OOB exclusively lately and totally forgot about the Chinese guerilla rule. Certainly some adjustments are in order, but glad to hear you think it’s at least viable.

I have a few comments.

I disagree with using the 3rd TT to take Wake. It should attack Borneo. The marine/Cruiser at the Carolines can take Wake, the Carolines objective isn’t worth as much as Borneo, I would say. Manilla can be attacked with an inf/art/ftr rather than 2inf+ftr, perhaps assisted by a bombard. I would be very tempted to scramble from Davao to Manilla with your attack.

I agree with skipping the attack on the UK BB.

Taking both bombers to the Philippines seems a steep price to pay. Perhaps 1 to Hawaii and 1 to Yunnan, with the Carolines pair of planes to Manilla.

I think taking Yunnan J1 is worth losing a plane - you didn’t do that. That attack was too skinny for my liking.

These changes should make the move stronger IMO. So probably a viable opening. What is it that makes it viable when it wasn’t really in BM? I think the Cruiser+Marine at the Carolines. That means you don’t need to bypass attacking Borneo to attack Pearl. The downside appears to be that your fleet at Wake Is may be vulnerable to a strong US counter strike but if you attack from SZ24 at least you can retreat to SZ35 or SZ7 next round.

So here are my suggested attacks

Yunnan: 1bomb 1ftr 1tac 3inf 1art - 100%
Borneo: 1inf 1art - 92%
Hawaii SZ(27): 1sub 1DD 1bomb 2ftr 2tac - 100% with no scramble, 94% with scramble
Manilla: 1inf 1art 1ftr - 73% with scramble
Davao: 1inf 1art 1ftr 1tac - 98% with no scramble
SZ36 (Philippines) minimum of BB, DD, sub 72%+8% draw.

Option 2:
Other SZ36: BB, DD, sub, Cruiser - 96%+2% draw
Other Borneo: 1inf 1arm 1tac - 100%
Other Yunnan: 1bomb 1ftr 4inf 1art - 98%

Although Option 2 does mean you can’t take Kweichow or Hunan

I think Option 2 is definitely preferable.

There may be an option 3
#3 to Borneo BB+Cru+1inf+1arm: 100%
#3 to SZ36: BB+sub+DD+ftr+tac: 100% with scramble
#3 to Yunnan: 1bomb+ftr+tac+2inf+1art: 100%
#3 to Manilla: Cru+1inf+1art+1ftr: 96% with scramble

Even better.

@simon33 I’ve played it out now a couple times and I agree some adjustments would be more optimal. Some thoughts based on my experience:

-Have both TTs that go the Philippines unload on Davao. That way the battle can be won without any planes. Getting the naval and air base can be pretty important for the J2 moves depending on where UK/AZ boats are. Manilla can easily be mopped up on J2.

-I think sinking the Prince of Wales is pretty important, so I would send 1 fig and 2 bombers there. Allowing that battleship to live when you’re only operating with around half your fleet strength in the south can be pretty limiting on J2/J3 if the allies get aggressive counterattacking. Makes it very risky to further divide the fleet.

-I’m fine with sending just about everything from Kwangsi to Yunnan. Sending an inf to Hunan and/or Kweichow isn’t really worth it, they are nearly guaranteed to be killed on C1.

-I still like using the Carolines CA/marine to take Gilbert islands. 5 IPC NO and it’s otherwise not an important area that you’re likely to be taking the fleet to any time soon, and by doing PH you’re also preventing US from taking it right back. It’s the same expected net payoff from taking Borneo (3 IPCs for J, -3 for allies, 33% chance of losing an inf if Borneo inf hits).

-As far as taking Wake, it’s not a necessity with the re-drawn map since planes can land on the Marshalls, allowing us to take damage on the carriers if US counter attacks. If they choose not to scramble at Pearl they can come back with 4 fig, 1 tac, 1 strat. Expected result is 3 damaged carriers and a lost plane. -43 IPC expected result for the US and will kill their offensive capabilities for a couple turns. OTOH, you could guarantee no counterstrike and prevent US from getting a 5 IPC NO by taking it.

Also I wasn’t sure what you meant by “if you attack from SZ24”. What would plan to even have there at the end of J1? It appears from your move list you are only sending 2 carriers land planes from the Pearl attack. In that case I would absolutely want to take Wake, as that fleet could be seriously damaged by a US counterstrike. My numbers above assume all 3. Also allows the 2 strats to be of more use on J2 strat bombing India or something.

That being said, you can do Borneo, Davao, and Gilberts if you skip Wake and given how costly it would be for the allies to do that counterstrike, it would probably be worth it to skip.

TripleA Move Summary: Japanese round 1

TripleA Move Summary for game: WW2 Path to Victory, version: 6.0.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 1 artillery, 1 marine, 1 submarine and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 

    Politics - Japanese
        Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Americans from Neutrality to War
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to War
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to War
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to War
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and French from Neutrality to War
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Germans and Americans from Neutrality to War
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Italians and Americans from Neutrality to War
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and French from Neutrality to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for British and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for UK_Pacific and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Americans from Neutrality to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and French from Neutrality to Allied
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Allies from Neutrality to Friendly_Neutral
            Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Axis from Neutrality to Unfriendly_Neutral

    Combat Move - Japanese
        Trigger Japanese Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttachment attached to Japanese
        1 marine moved from Caroline Islands to 34 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 34 Sea Zone to 32 Sea Zone
        1 marine moved from 32 Sea Zone to Wake Island
        1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 7 Sea Zone to 27 Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from Japan to 27 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser moved from 21 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
        1 battleship moved from 7 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Okinawa to 20 Sea Zone
        1 artillery moved from Southern Manchuria to 20 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Japan to 7 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 7 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
        1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Borneo
        1 transport moved from 21 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone
        1 artillery moved from Jehol to 20 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Formosa to 21 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 21 Sea Zone to Manilla
        1 cruiser moved from 7 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 34 Sea Zone to Davao
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Davao
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsu to 36 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Kweichow
              Japanese take Kweichow from Chinese
        1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
        2 infantry moved from Siam to French Indo China
              Japanese take French Indo China from French
        1 bomber moved from Japan to Yunnan
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe
              Japanese take Anhwe from Chinese
        1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi
              Japanese take Kiangsi from Chinese
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Fukien to Kwangtung
        1 fighter moved from Formosa to Manilla
        2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Japan to Kwangtung

Savegame

@regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:

@simon33 post saved games? my humanities-oriented brain can’t really process.

No worries.

@mikawagunichi said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:

Also I wasn’t sure what you meant by “if you attack from SZ24”

I misspoke here. It doesn’t make sense to attack Wake from SZ24 because the planes from PH can’t land here.

@mikawagunichi said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:

That being said, you can do Borneo, Davao, and Gilberts if you skip Wake and given how costly it would be for the allies to do that counterstrike, it would probably be worth it to skip.

I would be pretty worried about skipping taking Wake. It provides a landing spot if USA does an air strike on your fleet. Also, it gives USA a 5IPC NO.

Regarding the Gilbert Islands, I think attacking Borneo is still preferable. Leaves only 3 more money islands to take for its NO. I guess killing the ANZAC NO gives the idea some merit. The biggest problem I have with the idea though is that it takes transports away from where they are needed in the DEI.

I guess you could do as you suggest and just attack Davao. It isn’t the worst idea in the world.

@regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:

@simon33 i like it! you’d need to be prepared to sacrifice air in the Pearl Harbor battle to save the destroyer though, or risk of a 58% hit on the japanese fleet by wake (by my calcs). But otherwise looks pretty solid to me. I might try this in a game.

Well, you can reinforce on NCM if needed.

@simon33 Agreed on this, I move a DD on NM if needed. You don’t want to send extra ships in case US doesn’t scramble, they will be easy kills for US.

This discussion makes me want to try out P2V again.

@trulpen said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:

This discussion makes me want to try out P2V again.

After reading through the rules and feedback threads I can see how someone would have had serious issues with this game before some of the key rule changes were made. Probably a good thing I only recently decided to try it out.

Played a few games during L20 and I enjoyed it. Dropped off though after the split of the sz by Malaya. Just felt like Japan got grinded to dust from the bat.

Ah, yes, and it was before the limitation of sea-scramble.

@trulpen My early reaction is that the game somewhat favors the Allies. However, I haven’t played nearly enough games to pass judgement at this point though. Optimal Axis strategies in OOB have been known for years, I’m not sure if there’s a consensus on that for P2V yet. So far, our games have been very long lasting indicating it’s pretty balanced, but in the end the Allies economic advantage tends to favor a long game.

The split of the SZ off Malaya is definitely rough on Japan. Honestly that’s part of the reason I’ve been trying to perfect a Pearl Harbor opener rather than going straight for India.

Yep, that split makes it quite a difficult task to go towards Calcutta by sea, since it then leaves the central Pacific wide open. So unless US screwes up big-time, that’s a no go. A bit unfortunate, if you ask me, since Japan needs to be offensive having 5 nations to struggle against.

Anyway, going back to the subject, I’d like to applaud the feat of finding a way of maybe making PH viable. That’s just very cool also in a historical sense.

@mikawagunichi My brother here seems to forget that our last game was a decisive Axis victory, led by yours truly. I believe I was threatening to win on both sides of the map, but the US probably could have prevented one side from winning.

As far as balance issues are concerned, we’ve basically played 1 where the Allies player massively punted (oops), and then 2 real games, with those being 1-1. I think Japan is definitely weaker in PTV, which is probably a good thing. The extra SZ off Malaya is vital to making the game more interesting imo, by giving India a real chance at survival.

We need more play testing obviously, but every time he does his PH attack, I feel like Japan is out of units pretty early on. China, and Russia are bigger issues in this version than any others. What are your thoughts on waiting to declare war on J2 or even J3 to deal with them first, and maintain a significant foothold on the mainland.