@jkprince indeed 🙂
Thank you both for your interest!
WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies
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In a couple of Adam514’s games, he’s done an Anzac crush to overcome this limitation (vs regularkid and myself). 666 is doing one to me also. That does help Japan but losing China is really bad.
I’m confused why players don’t take FIC J1. Only costs 8IPC/turn for a max of 3 turns. Losing China costs Japan more than that.
Seems that if Japan can’t take either Sydney, India (unlikely) or Hawaii reasonably early, the Axis are in a lot of trouble.
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Looking at PTV and one of the biggest operational /tactical effects results from many Pacific isles now being on the border between two sea zones, rather than totally within a single sea zone. This means that a player can reinforce an isle before its attacked or try to retake an isle that was just captured, without destroying an enemy fleet on the other side of the isle in a different sea zone. Or conversely, an attacker can invade an isle without controlling the entire sea around the isle. Would appreciate a discussion on how this has affected play.
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Would like an update on early discussion on which side wins the most. Last post months ago said Allies never won, but appeared to be winning in some games in progress.
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How is the computer AI in letting me playtest PTV solo before taking on a live opponent?
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@fmerwinrommel AI won’t be a good match for a human who knows how to play, but also they won’t respect player-enforced rules (minor issue for playtesting though).
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I’m new to P2V but like what I’ve seen so far and think this will be my favorite version of global.
I think the combination of the added NOs in the Pacific along with the Jap CA & marine at the Carolines brings back the possibility of the Pearl Harbor attack being viable. I did this in a play test vs myself with the following moves:
3 fig, 3 tac, 1 SS, 1 DD to Pearl
CA + marine to SZ 33/Gilbert Islands
TT from SZ 7 to SZ 32/Wake Island
2 BB, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 SS, 2 TT to SZ 36, take both Philippines territoriesNC all 3 CVs to SZ 32 to land planes, replace any lost with those from Japan (should be 1)
1 DD to SZ 27 to block
1 CA left in SZ7 to pick up Marine built J1 which will take Guam on J2. CA/Marine that took Gilbert on J1 will take Wake on J2. That gives you both Pacific Island NOs.
Japan made 48 IPCs J1, 62 J2. The fleet that went to the Philippines J1 can take Borneo/Celebes J2, and Java/Sumatra J3 and kill the tiny UK or AZ fleets that may get in the way. By doing the PH attack you’ve taken out 2 of the 4 US ships which can carry troops and delayed their advance in the pacific by a turn. Also pretty much forces US to spend in the Pacific which helps Germany.
The re-drawn map has it’s advantages and disadvantages. The attacks I’ve laid out allow for single ships to take islands without fear of counterattack due to the extra SZs and the islands bordering multiple SZs. Since a Calcutta Crush is impossible with the extra SZ off Malaya, I think a more methodical strategy by Japan is optimal. Use your initial advantage to kill as many Allied ships as possible, thereby saving money which may otherwise be spent on ships to get more land units into China and heading south on TTs.
Mikawa released his ships to operate independently of his flagship, and at 01:31 he ordered "Every ship attack."
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@mikawagunichi thanks for the thoughtful post. Can you post a saved game showing your strategy in action?
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@mikawagunichi said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:
I think the combination of the added NOs in the Pacific along with the Jap CA & marine at the Carolines brings back the possibility of the Pearl Harbor attack being viable.
This would be truly awesome if it’s solid.
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@regularkid Play_Testing_P2v.tsvg
File attached. A few notes:
-I only played it through mid round 3
-Set on low luck
-I edited out the Japan attack on Hawaii J3 cause it was dumb and no allied player would allow that to happen -
@mikawagunichi not bad!
All in all, it seems like it could be a viable opening. I’d be interested to see how it plays out against a human.
I’d be a little worried about a UK air strike on FIC on round 1 to make Yunnan untakeable on round 2. Putting a Japanese carrier in sz 37 might help to deter this, since a fighter would be able scramble to defend the FIC infantry. But then thats less to hit Pearl Harbor.
Also, on round 3, I noticed you left several inland Chinese territories un-garrisoned, which would result in Partisan spawning on China’s turn. Was this on purpose?
Adam and I recently published a video on a Pearl Harbor gambit for Japan, in PTV (on the Nerd_Herd patreon). The gambit looks a little different, but the general idea is similar: focus on the central Pacific as a possible alternative to India crush. Good stuff.
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@regularkid Thanks. TBH, I’ve been playing OOB exclusively lately and totally forgot about the Chinese guerilla rule. Certainly some adjustments are in order, but glad to hear you think it’s at least viable.
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I have a few comments.
I disagree with using the 3rd TT to take Wake. It should attack Borneo. The marine/Cruiser at the Carolines can take Wake, the Carolines objective isn’t worth as much as Borneo, I would say. Manilla can be attacked with an inf/art/ftr rather than 2inf+ftr, perhaps assisted by a bombard. I would be very tempted to scramble from Davao to Manilla with your attack.
I agree with skipping the attack on the UK BB.
Taking both bombers to the Philippines seems a steep price to pay. Perhaps 1 to Hawaii and 1 to Yunnan, with the Carolines pair of planes to Manilla.
I think taking Yunnan J1 is worth losing a plane - you didn’t do that. That attack was too skinny for my liking.
These changes should make the move stronger IMO. So probably a viable opening. What is it that makes it viable when it wasn’t really in BM? I think the Cruiser+Marine at the Carolines. That means you don’t need to bypass attacking Borneo to attack Pearl. The downside appears to be that your fleet at Wake Is may be vulnerable to a strong US counter strike but if you attack from SZ24 at least you can retreat to SZ35 or SZ7 next round.
So here are my suggested attacks
Yunnan: 1bomb 1ftr 1tac 3inf 1art - 100%
Borneo: 1inf 1art - 92%
Hawaii SZ(27): 1sub 1DD 1bomb 2ftr 2tac - 100% with no scramble, 94% with scramble
Manilla: 1inf 1art 1ftr - 73% with scramble
Davao: 1inf 1art 1ftr 1tac - 98% with no scramble
SZ36 (Philippines) minimum of BB, DD, sub 72%+8% draw.Option 2:
Other SZ36: BB, DD, sub, Cruiser - 96%+2% draw
Other Borneo: 1inf 1arm 1tac - 100%
Other Yunnan: 1bomb 1ftr 4inf 1art - 98%Although Option 2 does mean you can’t take Kweichow or Hunan
I think Option 2 is definitely preferable.
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There may be an option 3
#3 to Borneo BB+Cru+1inf+1arm: 100%
#3 to SZ36: BB+sub+DD+ftr+tac: 100% with scramble
#3 to Yunnan: 1bomb+ftr+tac+2inf+1art: 100%
#3 to Manilla: Cru+1inf+1art+1ftr: 96% with scrambleEven better.
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@simon33 post saved games? my humanities-oriented brain can’t really process.
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@simon33 I’ve played it out now a couple times and I agree some adjustments would be more optimal. Some thoughts based on my experience:
-Have both TTs that go the Philippines unload on Davao. That way the battle can be won without any planes. Getting the naval and air base can be pretty important for the J2 moves depending on where UK/AZ boats are. Manilla can easily be mopped up on J2.
-I think sinking the Prince of Wales is pretty important, so I would send 1 fig and 2 bombers there. Allowing that battleship to live when you’re only operating with around half your fleet strength in the south can be pretty limiting on J2/J3 if the allies get aggressive counterattacking. Makes it very risky to further divide the fleet.
-I’m fine with sending just about everything from Kwangsi to Yunnan. Sending an inf to Hunan and/or Kweichow isn’t really worth it, they are nearly guaranteed to be killed on C1.
-I still like using the Carolines CA/marine to take Gilbert islands. 5 IPC NO and it’s otherwise not an important area that you’re likely to be taking the fleet to any time soon, and by doing PH you’re also preventing US from taking it right back. It’s the same expected net payoff from taking Borneo (3 IPCs for J, -3 for allies, 33% chance of losing an inf if Borneo inf hits).
-As far as taking Wake, it’s not a necessity with the re-drawn map since planes can land on the Marshalls, allowing us to take damage on the carriers if US counter attacks. If they choose not to scramble at Pearl they can come back with 4 fig, 1 tac, 1 strat. Expected result is 3 damaged carriers and a lost plane. -43 IPC expected result for the US and will kill their offensive capabilities for a couple turns. OTOH, you could guarantee no counterstrike and prevent US from getting a 5 IPC NO by taking it.
Also I wasn’t sure what you meant by “if you attack from SZ24”. What would plan to even have there at the end of J1? It appears from your move list you are only sending 2 carriers land planes from the Pearl attack. In that case I would absolutely want to take Wake, as that fleet could be seriously damaged by a US counterstrike. My numbers above assume all 3. Also allows the 2 strats to be of more use on J2 strat bombing India or something.
That being said, you can do Borneo, Davao, and Gilberts if you skip Wake and given how costly it would be for the allies to do that counterstrike, it would probably be worth it to skip.
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TripleA Move Summary: Japanese round 1
TripleA Move Summary for game: WW2 Path to Victory, version: 6.0.0
Game History
Round: 1 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 1 artillery, 1 marine, 1 submarine and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Politics - Japanese Japanese takes Political Action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Americans from Neutrality to War Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and British from Neutrality to War Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and UK_Pacific from Neutrality to War Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and ANZAC from Neutrality to War Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Dutch from Neutrality to War Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Japanese and French from Neutrality to War Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Germans and Americans from Neutrality to War Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Italians and Americans from Neutrality to War Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Americans from Neutrality to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and British from Neutrality to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and UK_Pacific from Concordant to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and French from Neutrality to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and ANZAC from Neutrality to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Chinese and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for British and Americans from Neutrality to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for UK_Pacific and Americans from Neutrality to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for ANZAC and Americans from Neutrality to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and French from Neutrality to Allied Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Allies from Neutrality to Friendly_Neutral Japanese succeeds on action: Political Action Japanese To War With Allies: Changing Relationship for Americans and Neutral_Axis from Neutrality to Unfriendly_Neutral Combat Move - Japanese Trigger Japanese Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttachment attached to Japanese 1 marine moved from Caroline Islands to 34 Sea Zone 1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 34 Sea Zone to 32 Sea Zone 1 marine moved from 32 Sea Zone to Wake Island 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 7 Sea Zone to 27 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from Japan to 27 Sea Zone 1 cruiser moved from 21 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 7 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Okinawa to 20 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from Southern Manchuria to 20 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 battleship, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 armour and 1 infantry moved from Japan to 7 Sea Zone 1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 7 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 1 armour and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Borneo 1 transport moved from 21 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from Jehol to 20 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Formosa to 21 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 21 Sea Zone to Manilla 1 cruiser moved from 7 Sea Zone to 21 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 34 Sea Zone to Davao 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to Davao 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsu to 36 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Kweichow Japanese take Kweichow from Chinese 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan 2 infantry moved from Siam to French Indo China Japanese take French Indo China from French 1 bomber moved from Japan to Yunnan 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe Japanese take Anhwe from Chinese 1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi Japanese take Kiangsi from Chinese 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Fukien to Kwangtung 1 fighter moved from Formosa to Manilla 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Japan to Kwangtung -
@regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:
@simon33 post saved games? my humanities-oriented brain can’t really process.
No worries.
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@mikawagunichi said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:
Also I wasn’t sure what you meant by “if you attack from SZ24”
I misspoke here. It doesn’t make sense to attack Wake from SZ24 because the planes from PH can’t land here.
@mikawagunichi said in WW2 Path to Victory - Strategies:
That being said, you can do Borneo, Davao, and Gilberts if you skip Wake and given how costly it would be for the allies to do that counterstrike, it would probably be worth it to skip.
I would be pretty worried about skipping taking Wake. It provides a landing spot if USA does an air strike on your fleet. Also, it gives USA a 5IPC NO.
Regarding the Gilbert Islands, I think attacking Borneo is still preferable. Leaves only 3 more money islands to take for its NO. I guess killing the ANZAC NO gives the idea some merit. The biggest problem I have with the idea though is that it takes transports away from where they are needed in the DEI.
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@simon33 i like it! you’d need to be prepared to sacrifice air in the Pearl Harbor battle to save the destroyer though, or risk of a 58% hit on the japanese fleet by wake (by my calcs). But otherwise looks pretty solid to me. I might try this in a game.
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I guess you could do as you suggest and just attack Davao. It isn’t the worst idea in the world.
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