WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion


  • @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
    As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

    1F1D6C7C-2222-4B04-BE53-2AC4FE86588F.jpeg

    Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

    D12 will have to convert. Some can’t use based on d6 and 16% more hit to strong but can be worked out with maybe some multi pieces like 2 each.
    Russia

    1. Spa AD5 in all terr. Now
    2. Promote a 2nd tank to a guard AD@7
      Russia gets 1 rank per turn in game already
    3. Move 2 IC 1 time in game. Plus build each +1 more piece.
    4. Place an Inf on any ussr starting terr per turn
    5. Same as tank promote 1 inf A3D5
    6. US can buy a mech, spa or art end of there turn. Place at a ussr ic right away

    UK

    1. All aa guns D +1
    2. US uses your pieces in combat only 1 time
    3. Tac/Div A+1 against surfaces subs. FS
    4. Figs move 5 more from a oil derrick in Sudan, Trans Jordan and Iran
    5. Place 3 frenchies in a France once liberated
    6. Place 1 Inf at each IC per turn

    US

    1. Place an AB At each that doesn’t have at start of game.
    2. Destroyer A@4 AD@1 bonus aa plane kill
    3. Build 3 marines a turn instead of 2
    4. Inf move 2 and can blitz
    5. AC move 3
    6. H bombers A5@3 one round only D@3 DF@2
      SBR 1d6 +3 starting on turn 3.

    Ger

    1. UK US pays icp each turn for every sub in Atlantic
    2. All art D@6 in all Ger terr only
    3. Tanks move 1 in non combat if they win a battle for terr
    4. Roll 3d6 s and icp money goes towards a naval buy only one time in game
    5. Tac/Div now can SNR 1d6 +1
    6. Inf D@5 on amph landongs first round only

    Japan

    1. Destroyers can carry 1 inf combat or non
    2. Subs A@6
    3. Place an AB at each island that doesn’t have one at start of game
    4. Your Transports can do 2 attacks same turn but can only use same ground units on first attack
    5. All Inf D+1 on islands and homeland
    6. Inf only attacking A+1 first round only

    Italy

    1. Place 1 BB in Rome port at start of game one time only
    2. All inf in Italian terr only A+1
    3. All inf in Italian terr only D+1
    4. Germany can buy 2 units and place at a Italian ic
    5. Receive 5 icps if no allies ships in Med includes subs
    6. Ger can but 2 Italian pieces and place at a Italian ic

    Well some have a few more words to them but loading this from a cell phone. Any questions ask. With D12 gives u more flexibility

    They remember me much on Axis and Allies revised. I like it.

    Yes a lot from there with tweaks


  • @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
    As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

    1F1D6C7C-2222-4B04-BE53-2AC4FE86588F.jpeg

    Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

    D12 will have to convert. Some can’t use based on d6 and 16% more hit to strong but can be worked out with maybe some multi pieces like 2 each.
    Russia

    1. Spa AD5 in all terr. Now
    2. Promote a 2nd tank to a guard AD@7
      Russia gets 1 rank per turn in game already
    3. Move 2 IC 1 time in game. Plus build each +1 more piece.
    4. Place an Inf on any ussr starting terr per turn
    5. Same as tank promote 1 inf A3D5
    6. US can buy a mech, spa or art end of there turn. Place at a ussr ic right away

    UK

    1. All aa guns D +1
    2. US uses your pieces in combat only 1 time
    3. Tac/Div A+1 against surfaces subs. FS
    4. Figs move 5 more from a oil derrick in Sudan, Trans Jordan and Iran
    5. Place 3 frenchies in a France once liberated
    6. Place 1 Inf at each IC per turn

    US

    1. Place an AB At each that doesn’t have at start of game.
    2. Destroyer A@4 AD@1 bonus aa plane kill
    3. Build 3 marines a turn instead of 2
    4. Inf move 2 and can blitz
    5. AC move 3
    6. H bombers A5@3 one round only D@3 DF@2
      SBR 1d6 +3 starting on turn 3.

    Ger

    1. UK US pays icp each turn for every sub in Atlantic
    2. All art D@6 in all Ger terr only
    3. Tanks move 1 in non combat if they win a battle for terr
    4. Roll 3d6 s and icp money goes towards a naval buy only one time in game
    5. Tac/Div now can SNR 1d6 +1
    6. Inf D@5 on amph landongs first round only

    Japan

    1. Destroyers can carry 1 inf combat or non
    2. Subs A@6
    3. Place an AB at each island that doesn’t have one at start of game
    4. Your Transports can do 2 attacks same turn but can only use same ground units on first attack
    5. All Inf D+1 on islands and homeland
    6. Inf only attacking A+1 first round only

    Italy

    1. Place 1 BB in Rome port at start of game one time only
    2. All inf in Italian terr only A+1
    3. All inf in Italian terr only D+1
    4. Germany can buy 2 units and place at a Italian ic
    5. Receive 5 icps if no allies ships in Med includes subs
    6. Ger can but 2 Italian pieces and place at a Italian ic

    Well some have a few more words to them but loading this from a cell phone. Any questions ask. With D12 gives u more flexibility

    They remember me much on Axis and Allies revised. I like it.

    Yes a lot from there with tweaks

    can those be implemented in BM3 too?


  • @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
    As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

    1F1D6C7C-2222-4B04-BE53-2AC4FE86588F.jpeg

    Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

    D12 will have to convert. Some can’t use based on d6 and 16% more hit to strong but can be worked out with maybe some multi pieces like 2 each.
    Russia

    1. Spa AD5 in all terr. Now
    2. Promote a 2nd tank to a guard AD@7
      Russia gets 1 rank per turn in game already
    3. Move 2 IC 1 time in game. Plus build each +1 more piece.
    4. Place an Inf on any ussr starting terr per turn
    5. Same as tank promote 1 inf A3D5
    6. US can buy a mech, spa or art end of there turn. Place at a ussr ic right away

    UK

    1. All aa guns D +1
    2. US uses your pieces in combat only 1 time
    3. Tac/Div A+1 against surfaces subs. FS
    4. Figs move 5 more from a oil derrick in Sudan, Trans Jordan and Iran
    5. Place 3 frenchies in a France once liberated
    6. Place 1 Inf at each IC per turn

    US

    1. Place an AB At each that doesn’t have at start of game.
    2. Destroyer A@4 AD@1 bonus aa plane kill
    3. Build 3 marines a turn instead of 2
    4. Inf move 2 and can blitz
    5. AC move 3
    6. H bombers A5@3 one round only D@3 DF@2
      SBR 1d6 +3 starting on turn 3.

    Ger

    1. UK US pays icp each turn for every sub in Atlantic
    2. All art D@6 in all Ger terr only
    3. Tanks move 1 in non combat if they win a battle for terr
    4. Roll 3d6 s and icp money goes towards a naval buy only one time in game
    5. Tac/Div now can SNR 1d6 +1
    6. Inf D@5 on amph landongs first round only

    Japan

    1. Destroyers can carry 1 inf combat or non
    2. Subs A@6
    3. Place an AB at each island that doesn’t have one at start of game
    4. Your Transports can do 2 attacks same turn but can only use same ground units on first attack
    5. All Inf D+1 on islands and homeland
    6. Inf only attacking A+1 first round only

    Italy

    1. Place 1 BB in Rome port at start of game one time only
    2. All inf in Italian terr only A+1
    3. All inf in Italian terr only D+1
    4. Germany can buy 2 units and place at a Italian ic
    5. Receive 5 icps if no allies ships in Med includes subs
    6. Ger can but 2 Italian pieces and place at a Italian ic

    Well some have a few more words to them but loading this from a cell phone. Any questions ask. With D12 gives u more flexibility

    They remember me much on Axis and Allies revised. I like it.

    Yes a lot from there with tweaks

    can those be implemented in BM3 too?

    Up to you. I don’t play g40. Start with 2 at start. See what happens. Gotta test


  • @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
    As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

    1F1D6C7C-2222-4B04-BE53-2AC4FE86588F.jpeg

    Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

    D12 will have to convert. Some can’t use based on d6 and 16% more hit to strong but can be worked out with maybe some multi pieces like 2 each.
    Russia

    1. Spa AD5 in all terr. Now
    2. Promote a 2nd tank to a guard AD@7
      Russia gets 1 rank per turn in game already
    3. Move 2 IC 1 time in game. Plus build each +1 more piece.
    4. Place an Inf on any ussr starting terr per turn
    5. Same as tank promote 1 inf A3D5
    6. US can buy a mech, spa or art end of there turn. Place at a ussr ic right away

    UK

    1. All aa guns D +1
    2. US uses your pieces in combat only 1 time
    3. Tac/Div A+1 against surfaces subs. FS
    4. Figs move 5 more from a oil derrick in Sudan, Trans Jordan and Iran
    5. Place 3 frenchies in a France once liberated
    6. Place 1 Inf at each IC per turn

    US

    1. Place an AB At each that doesn’t have at start of game.
    2. Destroyer A@4 AD@1 bonus aa plane kill
    3. Build 3 marines a turn instead of 2
    4. Inf move 2 and can blitz
    5. AC move 3
    6. H bombers A5@3 one round only D@3 DF@2
      SBR 1d6 +3 starting on turn 3.

    Ger

    1. UK US pays icp each turn for every sub in Atlantic
    2. All art D@6 in all Ger terr only
    3. Tanks move 1 in non combat if they win a battle for terr
    4. Roll 3d6 s and icp money goes towards a naval buy only one time in game
    5. Tac/Div now can SNR 1d6 +1
    6. Inf D@5 on amph landongs first round only

    Japan

    1. Destroyers can carry 1 inf combat or non
    2. Subs A@6
    3. Place an AB at each island that doesn’t have one at start of game
    4. Your Transports can do 2 attacks same turn but can only use same ground units on first attack
    5. All Inf D+1 on islands and homeland
    6. Inf only attacking A+1 first round only

    Italy

    1. Place 1 BB in Rome port at start of game one time only
    2. All inf in Italian terr only A+1
    3. All inf in Italian terr only D+1
    4. Germany can buy 2 units and place at a Italian ic
    5. Receive 5 icps if no allies ships in Med includes subs
    6. Ger can but 2 Italian pieces and place at a Italian ic

    Well some have a few more words to them but loading this from a cell phone. Any questions ask. With D12 gives u more flexibility

    They remember me much on Axis and Allies revised. I like it.

    Yes a lot from there with tweaks

    can those be implemented in BM3 too?

    Up to you. I don’t play g40. Start with 2 at start. See what happens. Gotta test

    Can it be implemented in triple a? In BM?


  • @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
    As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

    1F1D6C7C-2222-4B04-BE53-2AC4FE86588F.jpeg

    Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

    D12 will have to convert. Some can’t use based on d6 and 16% more hit to strong but can be worked out with maybe some multi pieces like 2 each.
    Russia

    1. Spa AD5 in all terr. Now
    2. Promote a 2nd tank to a guard AD@7
      Russia gets 1 rank per turn in game already
    3. Move 2 IC 1 time in game. Plus build each +1 more piece.
    4. Place an Inf on any ussr starting terr per turn
    5. Same as tank promote 1 inf A3D5
    6. US can buy a mech, spa or art end of there turn. Place at a ussr ic right away

    UK

    1. All aa guns D +1
    2. US uses your pieces in combat only 1 time
    3. Tac/Div A+1 against surfaces subs. FS
    4. Figs move 5 more from a oil derrick in Sudan, Trans Jordan and Iran
    5. Place 3 frenchies in a France once liberated
    6. Place 1 Inf at each IC per turn

    US

    1. Place an AB At each that doesn’t have at start of game.
    2. Destroyer A@4 AD@1 bonus aa plane kill
    3. Build 3 marines a turn instead of 2
    4. Inf move 2 and can blitz
    5. AC move 3
    6. H bombers A5@3 one round only D@3 DF@2
      SBR 1d6 +3 starting on turn 3.

    Ger

    1. UK US pays icp each turn for every sub in Atlantic
    2. All art D@6 in all Ger terr only
    3. Tanks move 1 in non combat if they win a battle for terr
    4. Roll 3d6 s and icp money goes towards a naval buy only one time in game
    5. Tac/Div now can SNR 1d6 +1
    6. Inf D@5 on amph landongs first round only

    Japan

    1. Destroyers can carry 1 inf combat or non
    2. Subs A@6
    3. Place an AB at each island that doesn’t have one at start of game
    4. Your Transports can do 2 attacks same turn but can only use same ground units on first attack
    5. All Inf D+1 on islands and homeland
    6. Inf only attacking A+1 first round only

    Italy

    1. Place 1 BB in Rome port at start of game one time only
    2. All inf in Italian terr only A+1
    3. All inf in Italian terr only D+1
    4. Germany can buy 2 units and place at a Italian ic
    5. Receive 5 icps if no allies ships in Med includes subs
    6. Ger can but 2 Italian pieces and place at a Italian ic

    Well some have a few more words to them but loading this from a cell phone. Any questions ask. With D12 gives u more flexibility

    They remember me much on Axis and Allies revised. I like it.

    Yes a lot from there with tweaks

    can those be implemented in BM3 too?

    Up to you. I don’t play g40. Start with 2 at start. See what happens. Gotta test

    Can it be implemented in triple a? In BM?

    You’ll have to ask barnee


  • @Amon-Sul, I think the main one that would be impossible to carry out in triple A (without reliance on manual edits and out-of-game dice rolls) would be the Joint Strike NA (USA can use uk units for combat once during the game). I think you’d have to trigger a temporary change in ownership of all uk units on the board to US, but I’m not sure how you could track them for purposes of the eventual return to UK ownership.

    Some of the others might be doable tho!


  • @regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul, I think the main one that would be impossible to carry out in triple A (without reliance on manual edits and out-of-game dice rolls) would be the Joint Strike NA (USA can use uk units for combat once during the game). I think you’d have to trigger a temporary change in ownership of all uk units on the board to US, but I’m not sure how you could track them for purposes of the eventual return to UK ownership.

    Some of the others might be doable tho!

    that one is not problem for doing manually once in a game, but for example destroyers carring inf , uk aa guns defending on 2, it could be great if it could be implemented in triple a, so u dont have to use edits all the time


  • @Amon-Sul

    @Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @Amon-Sul, I think the main one that would be impossible to carry out in triple A (without reliance on manual edits and out-of-game dice rolls) would be the Joint Strike NA (USA can use uk units for combat once during the game). I think you’d have to trigger a temporary change in ownership of all uk units on the board to US, but I’m not sure how you could track them for purposes of the eventual return to UK ownership.

    Some of the others might be doable tho!

    that one is not problem for doing manually once in a game, but for example destroyers carring inf , uk aa guns defending on 2, it could be great if it could be implemented in triple a, so u dont have to use edits all the time

    UK AA defend at 2 - can definitely be done. Would have to create a new unit type (e.g., “UK AA”) availabe only to the UK that has unique defence value.

    Tokyo Express - same thing. Unique unit type (e.g., “Jap Destroyer”) would do the trick.


  • Hey fellow Nerd Herders. We’re happy to announce the release of WW2 Path to Victory v 3.0, available for download now on TripleA. The substantive changes were made based on the results of further playtesting and community feedback:

    • Sea Zone 6 is redrawn to fully encompass Korea (see image below);

    • Japan’s “Honolulu, Sydney, Calcutta” National Objective now requires direct Japanese ownership to get the +5 PUs, rather than just Axis ownership;

    • Tsugaru Strait now permits passage of submarines, regardless of ownership (like Gibraltar).

    That is all.

    Also, if you ever want to chat with Adam and me directly about Path to Victory, or enjoy live chat during games, please come and join our PTV discord server at: https://discord.gg/kSbeKFa. Adam and I are there most days and eager to hear from you.

    Enjoy!

    screenshotofversion3.png


  • @regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Hey fellow Nerd Herders. We’re happy to announce the release of WW2 Path to Victory v 3.0, available for download now on TripleA. The substantive changes were made based on the results of further playtesting and community feedback:

    • Sea Zone 6 is redrawn to fully encompass Korea (see image below);

    yes! thank you! it was so annoying that even from sz38 Japan could reach Korea…


  • @regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Hey fellow Nerd Herders. We’re happy to announce the release of WW2 Path to Victory v 3.0, available for download now on TripleA. The substantive changes were made based on the results of further playtesting and community feedback:

    • Tsugaru Strait now permits passage of submarines, regardless of ownership (like Gibraltar).

    Tsugaru say what? I didn’t even realize there was a strait there! great update then, allowing subs in… but that strait should definitely be highlighted more in the notes… should be its own item in the notes


  • @axis-dominion said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    @regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Hey fellow Nerd Herders. We’re happy to announce the release of WW2 Path to Victory v 3.0, available for download now on TripleA. The substantive changes were made based on the results of further playtesting and community feedback:

    • Tsugaru Strait now permits passage of submarines, regardless of ownership (like Gibraltar).

    Tsugaru say what? I didn’t even realize there was a strait there! great update then, allowing subs in… but that strait should definitely be highlighted more in the notes… should be its own item in the notes

    also, what is the rule regarding non-sub passage through that strait? is it like gib where only one control of one territory is all that’s needed, and if so, which territory? or is it more like the Turkish straits?


  • @axis-dominion. Hey, there is a labeled section in Notes devoted to Tsugaru Strait (we added it in Version 2!) Yes, its like Gibraltar. . . control of Japan alone controls the strait.


  • alright, i just re-tested version 3 with an older saved game, and it DOES work. So I’m removing the warning about this. Download away!


  • @regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    alright, i just re-tested version 3 with an older saved game, and it DOES work. So I’m removing the warning about this. Download away!

    Yep - my saved game with surfer works.

  • '19

    @regularkid The third Anzac objective still seems to be tied to ownership of Solomon Islands. Text no longer includes solomons but taking solomons cancels out the objective.


  • @ksmckay Thanks Ksmckay, it will be addressed in the next version.


  • Hey guys. Adam brought something to my attention that I just fixed. An AA gun was inadvertently removed from United Kingdom (it should have four, not three, AA guns at the start). I updated the map to reflect this change, so if you download it now it will have the correct number of AA guns.

    If you are using the older version, you should definitely add an AA gun to UK before beginning, because that was not an intended change. Thanks!


  • @regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

    Hey guys. Adam brought something to my attention that I just fixed. An AA gun was inadvertently removed from United Kingdom (it should have four, not three, AA guns at the start). I updated the map to reflect this change, so if you download it now it will have the correct number of AA guns.

    If you are using the older version, you should definitely add an AA gun to UK before beginning, because that was not an intended change. Thanks!

    Don’t think you need to double-post, but the info is fine here. :)

  • '19

    @regularkid @adam514 Does Rostov touch the black sea? The map has just one sea zone, making it seem as though it does. The graphics are a bit misleading too I would say. TripleA doesnt allow the move. If Rostov doesnt touch the sea zone, does that mean there is a land bridge connecting Ukr to North Caucasus? (Obviously no), but still.

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