Had to edit souther france again to Italy, expect some more bugs
18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3
-
@JuanSpain said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
@JuanSpain Edits because had to repeat and dice were different
Please explain a little more why your edits are okey. It looks a little dicey. If you had to redo something, why should i have the worse result? I am sure everything is ok, just some more info
-
@JuanSpain I think you need to explain a little more why your edits are ok. You give me a worse result
-
Sounds line Juan adjusted the situation to the result after the first and thus binding dice.
He redid the turn and the second (non-Real) dice run was different so he adjusted to the first dice run. -
@JDOW said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
Sounds line Juan adjusted the situation to the result after the first and thus binding dice.
He redid the turn and the second (non-Real) dice run was different so he adjusted to the first dice run.Why didnt he post the result of the original result?
-
@oysteilo said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
@JDOW said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
Sounds line Juan adjusted the situation to the result after the first and thus binding dice.
He redid the turn and the second (non-Real) dice run was different so he adjusted to the first dice run.Why didnt he post the result of the original result?
And edit that accordingly? I think i would have done that. There is also no note about a re-do og the turn
-
@oysteilo said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
@oysteilo said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
@JDOW said in 18 League TITLE PLAYOFF QUARTER FINAL Oysteilo (Allies + 6) vs JuanSpain G40 BM3:
Sounds line Juan adjusted the situation to the result after the first and thus binding dice.
He redid the turn and the second (non-Real) dice run was different so he adjusted to the first dice run.Why didnt he post the result of the original result?
And edit that accordingly? I think i would have done that. There is also no note about a re-do og the turn
And why did he have to adjust the result? No note about that either. Juan is a fair player, so no issues about that, but i feel i have the right to ask what this is about
-
@oysteilo computer failed and had to redo, that is all. You have all the dice in the dice server email. The map posted corresponds of course to the first dice launched. In the end the difference the second time was little when redoing: One defense more in one combat and one less in other (affecting infs in both sides), and 3 IPC in convoy damage.
-
@JuanSpain ok. I dont get to this today or tomorrow anyway so i will look at my dice emails. I would have appreciated an original post though
-
@oysteilo me too, was no possible Sir, had to repeat everything. Would have been easier for me too.
-
First of all, I will go with this.
Howerver, I am not very happy about how this is handled. Here it is just assumed I will continue with the worse of two results without any questions. I think 99,9% of players would have asked in this situation. I also don’t find anything in the rules supporting JDOW’s view of ALWAYS accepting the first set of dice emails by skimming through the text. I agree it is logical but nothing supports that this is absolute.
Maybe a better way of going about this is to edit the file according to the initial dice emails without going for a second set of dice emails? You ended up editing anyway so there was no point in throwing in the confusion with the second dice emails.
So at the end of the day there are two sets of dice emails, you give me the worse result and you choose to throw dice a second time even though you could have resolved the computer crash issue in a different way, by plain editing and thus avoiding the confusion.
I am done with this now and there are no hard feelings from my side. I think I have stated my opinion clearly.
I think my schedule allows me to continue this afternoon!
-
Oysteilo, frankly, I had this situation plenty of times from both sides. My opponents did plenty of times and often I did it too, because sometimes I could not handle things via edits (e.g units on transports could not be removed) so I redid the turn and made edits according to the original dice set. Or sometimes the computer or tripleA crashes
@JuanSpain: The better solution next time is: Do the second run in local mode. Save after you made the edits. Then reload in real mode and post --> There is no second set of dice in this case.
@oysteilo: Imo it is very easy to check whether Juan handled this correctly. There were just 2 battles affected weren’t they? Just look at the affected battles and check if the first dice mail (earlier timestamp) matches the results on the map after the edits.
I, in fact, did this from time to time and it was a 2 min exercise (I have a separate dice mail that does not get any other messages, do you?)In a nutshell: A second set of dice can be avoided by doing the new run in local mode, make edits, save, reload and post in real mode.
However, this would not avoid that that posted map shows different dice than the dice email does."So at the end of the day there are two sets of dice emails, you give me the worse result "
I really think this is not true and a subtle accusation lies in that statement. Juan did not give you the worse result but the first result. This is a huge difference because in 50% when these situations happened, the edits happened to improve the situation for the defender as the second run was worse for the attacker than the first run in these cases.Anyway, I am not playing in this game but I am 100% neutral here and try to mediate by supporting that there is nothing special nor unsportsmanlike in Juan’s actions. Also, this is not comparable to an edit where one has to ask for permission because the rules are clear: The posted map has to match the first dice set that has been rolled. This is the rules and its common sense. Only if this should not happen (e.g. because you misclicked something) you have to ask for permission to reroll and to take the 2nd set of dice.
-
" I also don’t find anything in the rules supporting JDOW’s view of ALWAYS accepting the first set of dice emails by skimming through the text. I agree it is logical but nothing supports that this is absolute."
It is absolute and has been explained and thus indirectly ruled by gamerman some years ago (I think it is not in the official rules because it is so logical that it must not be further explained)First dice count, period.
If someone takes the second set of dice for real without asking for permission he/violates the rules. I am certain that any rule deputy would support this statement.
-
This is what stupid cheaters would did and also did in the past occasionly. Run at battle, don’t like the outcome, redo the battle until the desired outcome and then post the battle. As soon as you see multiple dice for one and the same battle you can get suspicious (I can see this on my cell with one look). Then you dive in and check by the timestamps whether the posted map matches the first set of dice. If it doesn’t, your opponent most likely cheated (or more likely comes with a stupid excuse why this happened by accident:D)
But as said, as long as the posted map matches the first set of dice, everything is clear by definition and this logic cannot easily be exploited.
-
@JDOW Thanks for your input. I have said I have accepted the edit and the current map and I have not accused JuanSpain about cheeting. If you think my wording indicates that I am sorry. I have played JuanSpain in the past and know him as a fair player that also have allowed my silly errors.
All I have said is that I think this could have been handled better and more elegantly by a different approach. This situation was not complicated and could easiily have been resolved by a simple edit. Still, a choice is made to throw more dice with really no note of what is going on. I dont understand the need for the second set of emails. This just makes things very complicated. I also think the initial note about what had happened was very short and suprafacial. This leads me to ask some questions and then the discussion rolls on as it always does and if my statement about giving me a worse result is read as I am accusing JuanSpain of cheeting I am now officially appologizing for that and I am sorry for this
@JDOW, the conclusion I read from your message is that this situation was handled perfectly initially and with no need for me to ask any questions. I will be more reluctant about this in the future. Thank you
-
TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 9
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3
Game History
Round: 9 Purchase Units - Russians Russians buy 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; Combat Move - Russians 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Ukraine 1 tactical_bomber moved from Iraq to Ukraine 1 fighter moved from Iraq to Ukraine 1 fighter moved from Iraq to Tambov 2 infantry moved from Russia to Tambov 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine Combat - Russians Battle in Ukraine Russians attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Germans defend with 1 factory_minor and 3 infantry Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Ukraine, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 2,00 expected hits Germans roll dice for 3 infantry in Ukraine, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Ukraine Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Ukraine, round 3 : 0/5 hits, 2,00 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Ukraine, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Ukraine Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Ukraine, round 4 : 3/4 hits, 1,83 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Ukraine, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Ukraine Russians win, taking Ukraine from Germans with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry Battle in Tambov Russians attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry Italians defend with 1 infantry Russians roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Tambov, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits Italians roll dice for 1 infantry in Tambov, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Tambov Russians win, taking Tambov from Italians with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry Battle in Western Ukraine Russians attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry Germans defend with 1 infantry Russians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Western Ukraine, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Western Ukraine, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Western Ukraine Russians win, taking Western Ukraine from Germans with 1 artillery and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0 Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry Non Combat Move - Russians 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Ukraine to Russia 1 fighter moved from Tambov to Russia 1 infantry moved from Vologda to Nenetsia 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Vologda to Russia 3 aaGuns, 3 armour, 10 artilleries, 50 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Bryansk to Russia Place Units - Russians 10 infantry placed in Russia Turn Complete - Russians Russians collect 18 PUs; end with 20 PUs Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 23 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans : 0,00 Italians : -0,33 Russians : 0,50 -
@JuanSpain I hope we can continue this game in a friendly style. I do not think you are cheeting and I am now appologizing to you for my wording which I see may be read in a way not intended
The whole thing started because I did not understanding what this was about
-
Oysteilo: It could have been handled better by redoing the turn using local mode.
-
@oysteilo Jesus, what is all this, 3 IPC in convoy damage is the difference.
I was busy at work overseas and was not able to read all this, and will not, given what I read in the last post. Now just landed back to Spain, will continue soon.
Thanks guys
Cheers
Juan
-
TripleA Move Summary: Japanese round 9
TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3
Game History
Round: 9 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 5 destroyers, 6 infantry and 3 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 2 infantry moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes 1 tactical_bomber moved from 35 Sea Zone to Celebes 1 fighter moved from 35 Sea Zone to Celebes 1 artillery and 1 marine moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes 1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 marine moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes 3 artilleries and 14 infantry moved from Shensi to Kansu 2 mech_infantrys moved from Kweichow to Kansu 1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Hunan 1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan 1 artillery moved from Hunan to Yunnan 1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Shensi 1 artillery moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan 1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Chahar 1 mech_infantry moved from Kwangtung to Anhwe 1 infantry moved from Hunan to Kweichow 1 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan 1 mech_infantry moved from Hopei to Kansu 1 infantry moved from Shan State to Burma 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to Burma 2 bombers moved from French Indo China to Kansu 1 armour moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 4 infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 infantry moved from Shan State to Yunnan 6 infantry moved from Buryatia to Yakut S.S.R. Japanese take Yakut S.S.R. from Russians 1 infantry moved from Sakha to Buryatia 2 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 fighter moved from 35 Sea Zone to Celebes 2 submarines moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 6 carriers moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 2 battleships moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 4 carriers moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from 42 Sea Zone to Celebes 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to Kansu 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Kansu 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to Kansu -
TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 9
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3, version: 3.3
Game History
Round: 9 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 5 destroyers, 6 infantry and 3 submarines; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 2 bombers, 4 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to Kansu 3 artilleries and 14 infantry moved from Shensi to Kansu 2 mech_infantrys moved from Hopei to Kansu 1 mech_infantry moved from Kweichow to Kansu 1 mech_infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi 1 artillery moved from Chahar to Hopei 1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Chahar 1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Anhwe 1 infantry moved from Hunan to Kweichow 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan 1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan 1 mech_infantry moved from Kwangtung to Hunan 1 armour moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 infantry moved from Shan State to Burma 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to Burma 2 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 1 infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan 2 infantry moved from French Indo China to Shan State 1 destroyer moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 4 carriers moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 2 battleships moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 6 carriers moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 2 submarines moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 marine moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 cruiser and 1 marine moved from 42 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes 1 marine moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes 2 fighters moved from 42 Sea Zone to Celebes 2 fighters moved from 35 Sea Zone to Celebes 1 tactical_bomber moved from 35 Sea Zone to Celebes 2 infantry moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes 6 infantry moved from Buryatia to Yakut S.S.R. Japanese take Yakut S.S.R. from Russians 1 infantry moved from Sakha to Buryatia 2 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol Combat - Japanese Battle in 44 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 2 battleships, 10 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 3 submarines and 2 transports Americans defend with 1 submarine Japanese roll dice for 3 submarines in 44 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 2 battleships, 10 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 2 transports in 44 Sea Zone, round 2 : 3/4 hits, 2,17 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 submarine in 44 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits 1 submarine owned by the Americans lost in 44 Sea Zone Japanese win with 2 battleships, 10 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 3 submarines and 2 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for Americans: 1 submarine Battle in Celebes Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 4 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 marine and 1 tactical_bomber ANZAC defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery, 4 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 marine and 1 tactical_bomber in Celebes, round 2 : 5/9 hits, 3,83 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Celebes, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the ANZAC and 1 artillery owned by the ANZAC lost in Celebes Japanese win, taking Celebes from ANZAC with 1 artillery, 4 fighters, 2 infantry, 1 marine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for ANZAC: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Battle in Burma Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 1 infantry British defend with 1 infantry Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Burma, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 infantry in Burma, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Burma, round 3 : 1/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 infantry in Burma, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Burma Japanese win, taking Burma from UK_Pacific with 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for British: 1 infantry Battle in Yunnan Japanese attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 4 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 4 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers in Yunnan, round 2 : 7/12 hits, 5,17 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Yunnan, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Japanese, 1 artillery owned by the British and 2 infantry owned by the British lost in Yunnan Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry Casualties for British: 1 artillery and 2 infantry Battle in Kansu Japanese attack with 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 14 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers Chinese defend with 1 fighter and 22 infantry Japanese roll dice for 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 14 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers in Kansu, round 2 : 9/30 hits, 10,33 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 22 infantry in Kansu, round 2 : 7/23 hits, 8,00 expected hits 7 infantry owned by the Japanese and 9 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Kansu Japanese roll dice for 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 7 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers in Kansu, round 3 : 12/23 hits, 9,17 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 13 infantry in Kansu, round 3 : 6/14 hits, 5,00 expected hits 6 infantry owned by the Japanese and 12 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Kansu Japanese roll dice for 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 1 infantry, 3 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers in Kansu, round 4 : 7/17 hits, 8,17 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Kansu, round 4 : 1/2 hits, 1,00 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Japanese, 1 infantry owned by the Chinese and 1 fighter owned by the Chinese lost in Kansu Japanese win, taking Kansu from Chinese with 3 artilleries, 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 3 mech_infantrys and 4 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 34 Casualties for Japanese: 14 infantry Casualties for Chinese: 1 fighter and 22 infantry Non Combat Move - Japanese 4 tactical_bombers moved from Kansu to Shensi 4 fighters moved from Kansu to Shensi 2 bombers moved from Kansu to Hunan 1 fighter moved from Burma to Sumatra 2 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi 2 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Yunnan to 44 Sea Zone 4 fighters moved from Celebes to 44 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Celebes to 44 Sea Zone 6 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 fighters, 6 infantry and 3 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 20 Sea Zone 6 infantry moved from 20 Sea Zone to Kiangsi 1 destroyer moved from 16 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 20 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone Place Units - Japanese 3 infantry placed in Kwangtung 3 infantry placed in French Indo China 5 destroyers and 3 submarines placed in 6 Sea Zone Turn Complete - Japanese Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 7 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 42 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,1 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 41 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,4 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 43 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,6 Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 37 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,5 Japanese collect 64 PUs (7 lost to blockades); end with 64 PUs Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 67 PUs Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 72 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Americans : -0,17 ANZAC : -0,67 Chinese : 0,00 UK_Pacific : -0,67 Japanese : 2,83
Suggested Topics
