Favorite Axis and allies game

@Matt-Hyra Alright, Thank you for letting me know!

@Cernel said in Some cases of transport-related rules across "Axis & Allies" games from Classic to the most recent ones:

@Krieghund said in Some cases of transport-related rules across "Axis & Allies" games from Classic to the most recent ones:

@Cernel Cases 1 and 2 are legal in versions up to and including Revised OOB, but not legal in Revised LHTR or later. Cases 3 through 5 are not legal in any version.

Even though you stated
@Krieghund said in Some cases of transport-related rules across "Axis & Allies" games from Classic to the most recent ones:

@Cernel Forget what I said here to the contrary, and go with the prior rulings. I have edited my above answers in accordance with this.

I’ve seen that you have not yet edited this post.

Does this mean that, in this case, you stand by this latest clarification of yours (which should be taken as prevalent)?

No. I did not edit the post because I amended this answer in a later post in this thread (which was made before I edited the posts).

So, summarizing, it seems that, to my first two cases at the first post of this topic, specifically
@Cernel said in Some cases of transport-related rules across "Axis & Allies" games from Classic to the most recent ones:

A transport has one or two units already on board at the start of the turn, does not load any more units, moves into a hostile sea zone during the same turn and does not offload any units during Combat Move, partakes to a successful sea battle without being removed and offloads any number of its cargo into an own or allied territory during the subsequent Non-Combat Move phase.

A transport has one or two units already on board at the start of the turn, starts the turn inside a hostile sea zone and neither moves nor loads any units nor offloads any units during Combat Move, partakes to a successful sea battle without being removed and offloads any number of its cargo into an own or allied territory during the subsequent Non-Combat Move phase.

we have two possible official answers (both from you).

In this topic, you said that
@Krieghund said in Some cases of transport-related rules across "Axis & Allies" games from Classic to the most recent ones:

@Cernel Cases 1 and 2 are legal in versions up to and including Revised OOB, but not legal in Revised LHTR or later.

whereas, based on what you said previously and I quoted at this post, I understand that your answer based on those answers would be something like

Cases 1 and 2 are legal in Revised OOB and the original Europe and Pacific, but not legal in the Classic games nor in Revised LHTR or later.

Which one is the correct ruling?

The second one, as I stated in my amended post above.

If you will, please don’t just tell me to go with whatever you said previously: if you are going with the previous rulings, I’d like to know on what they are based.

Would it be because of the concept that cargo inside a transport which took part in a battle is considered having taken part in the battle too (and therefore cannot do anything during the subsequent Noncombat Move phase) coupled with the fact that every Classic rules-book is missing a special rule like the one in Revised OOB stating that

Transports that have been in combat may either load or offload (not both) during this phase, but not if they have retreated from combat this turn.

If this is not the reason, what is the reason?

Yes, that’s the reason.

I understand that, as an official answerer, you can just limit yourself to say what’s what, but I would like to know the reasons behind the rulings at least for those which (apparently) changed over time or got answers at variance with each other if that is not too much to ask.

I think this was all covered adequately in the “Offloading in Both Combat and Noncombat Movement” thread that you linked. There’s no reason to go over it again.

As a side note, I apologize for not consulting that thread before I answered here initially. I was going from memory, which is always a bad thing to do when dealing with Revised OOB, for reasons discussed in that thread.

Trying to make a summary of a number of my topics, I believe that we can divide the matter into three main cases, namely “1”, “2” and “3”, the latter being actually “1+2”.

A transport with 2 units already on board at start turn offloads 1 unit during Combat Move (does not take part in any battles) and offloads the other unit during Noncombat Move (both units being offloaded into the same territory, which was enemy owned during Combat Move and is friendly during Noncombat Move).

A transport with 1 or 2 units already on board at start turn takes part in a battle (and does not offload any units during Conduct Combat) and offloads all or part of the units during Noncombat move (into a friendly territory).

A transport with 2 units already on board at start tun takes part in a battle and offloads 1 unit during Conduct Combat and offloads the other unit during Noncombat Move (both units being offloaded into the same territory, which was enemy owned during Conduct Combat and is friendly during Noncombat Move).

First of all, have we conclusively clarified that (for every rules-set) whether or not a transport moved before amphibiously offloading or taking part in a battle on the same turn is absolutely irrelevant for whatever it can do during Noncombat Move? Meaning that it would be completely pointless to split the aforementioned three cases into two cases each (for a total of six cases), stating whether the transport moved or not before offloading in Combat Move or taking part in combat. Correct?

Yes.

Secondarily, are we splitting all actual (WW2 and strategic) Axis & Allies games from Classic 1st Edition to the most recent ones into two main groups each of which has either all the above three cases (“1”, “2” and “1+2”) legal or illegal, or are there any such games which have only some of the above three cases legal and the rest illegal?

This grouping is correct.

Either way, I’d like to have the full list of them (Again, it does not need to be an actual list: something like “this full sequence of actions is illegal in every game since Revised LHTR but was legal in Revised OOB and every game beforehand” would be just as good.).

To be clear, I see two cases here.

If I take what you said at the post to which I’m replying now as prevailing over whatever you said in the past and I quoted at this post, what I understand is that,

for the Classic games, 1 and 1+2 are illegal but 2 is legal. for Europe, Pacific and Revised OOB, 1, 2 and 1+2 are all legal. for Revised LHTR and later games, 1, 2 and 1+2 are all illegal.

If I take what you said in the past and I quoted at this post as prevailing over whatever you said at the post to which I’m replying now, what I understand is that,

for the Classic games, Revised LHTR and later games, 1, 2 and 1+2 are all illegal. for Europe, Pacific and Revised OOB, 1, 2 and 1+2 are all legal.

(However, I’m quite unsure about (the original) Europe and Pacific.)

So take your time and let me/us know if you will. I understand that it’s a lot of rules-sets to be sure. Thank you.

For Classic and Revised LHTR and later, all are illegal.
For Europe, Pacific, and LHTR OOB, all are legal.

Considering that:

In the measurement what is mainly seen is the height of the stack and The color of the top chip and maybe although less of the second, As well as that a possible misidentification of the quantity should not result in large error deviations.
I think that: The best guarantee is given if the distinction is made by fives of increasing quantity with the characteristics of the change for each fives as obvious as possible. The chip with the highest value should be placed on top, followed by the others in descending order, which should preferably only be gray and up to four, so that the height of the stack represents a corresponding quantity.
I tentatively named it the “pentadic system” from the Greek word “pente” meaning “five”. Τhe relevant table in pdf format at the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7utsvihpqec86r6/AA Chips.pdf?dl=0
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@aadudecphdk1981 great work. Thank you.

@jesse144 I don’t know about Football or whomever “John Boyd” is. Clausewitz is the real genius and to read his book is to profit from real military wisdom. You can believe that.

Thats a pretty general question, and I assume the answer varies depending on which WWII board game you are playing. I personally can’t speak regarding other games (Global War 1936, War Room, Triumph and Tradgedy)… I can only speak about my experience with various versions of axis and allies.
Most of the axis and allies variant games I played this year lasted very long (7 or more full rounds) and were fought to a stalemate, with the axis player eventually conceding that they were going to lose in the long-run.
The original classic A&A, revised A&A, and A&A europe 1940 2nd edition often seem to boil down to this: If axis powers take moscow, the game is pretty much over. If the allies conquer either Berlin or Tokyo, the game is pretty much over. Its rarely necessary to continue once either of those conditions is met, because the income bonus and momentum is hard to overcome.
I would say that most games I play end in less than 10 rounds.

Winston Churchill Quotes
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

My Transport rule suggestion. I do have most of this for my transports.
D6
A0
D@1 plane only.
C6
M2
ES @1
Any planes in a naval battle with defending transports.
Can take transport as a causality but loses the D@1 against a plane.

No planes in a naval battle can’t take transports as a causality.

Lone Transports against Ships and planes. The attacker has to kill the transports .
Non of this cop out crap with lone transports all dead. WTF. They can escape.
This will prolong the battle at most 5 mins. This only happens 1-4 times in a game.
A transport gets a D@1 plane shot if killed if there is planes in battle.
No planes then the ship or ships have to kill the transport.
Now the transport only gets a escape roll if he survives the round of attack.
No escape roll for a sub FS.
2 Dest and 1 Sub attacking 3 lone transports.
Attacker rolls for 2 dest a 4 and a 5. both misses.
1 sub rolls FS shot of a 1. I killed transport. No escape.
Now the 2 transports roll for escape and get a 1 and 6.
1 transport escapes to another sz or stays in same sz and then next round of combat
the attackers only get to attack 1 transport.
Works great in my game. We ave 2-4 transports surviving per game. But it gives you more options to use transport
in naval battles.