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The Polar Express
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Thanks for the pm and link, SS, I will look into that later.
Also I like your winter rule that makes marshes like Pripet and Vyborg passable.
But I dont understand that Mummy thing, why would a mummy go to Norway ? I do endorse that a Tranny can sail from Egypt to Norway in one turn, in fact the German Altmark did sail from what probably is seazone 69 and all the way to seazone 127, before being sunk in seazone 112 outside Norway, in a few weeks, or within an A&A Turn. That is 16 spaces in one Turn, and Altmark wasn’t even fast, she was real slow. I figure you see my point ? Now try to move a German Tranny that same distance in your next leage game, it would take 8 Turns and she is most likely to get sunk after 1 Turn.
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Thanks for the pm and link, SS, I will look into that later.
Also I like your winter rule that makes marshes like Pripet and Vyborg passable.
But I dont understand that Mummy thing, why would a mummy go to Norway ? I do endorse that a Tranny can sail from Egypt to Norway in one turn, in fact the German Altmark did sail from what probably is seazone 69 and all the way to seazone 127, before being sunk in seazone 112 outside Norway, in a few weeks, or within an A&A Turn. That is 16 spaces in one Turn, and Altmark wasn’t even fast, she was real slow. I figure you see my point ? Now try to move a German Tranny that same distance in your next leage game, it would take 8 Turns and she is most likely to get sunk after 1 Turn.
The Mummy comment was pertaining to the Threads and IL’s comments. Sorry I was being sarcastic.
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A&A needs to tie into Universal’s monster library and move beyond zombies: mummies in Egypt, vampires in Romania, werewolves and invisible men in the UK, Frankenstein monsters in Central Europe, creatures from the Black Lagoon in Brazil, and to give the US something why not Abbott and Costello?
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A&A needs to tie into Universal’s monster library and move beyond zombies: mummies in Egypt, vampires in Romania, werewolves and invisible men in the UK, Frankenstein monsters in Central Europe, creatures from the Black Lagoon in Brazil, and to give the US something why not Abbott and Costello?
Ohh man cant forget about my Three Stooges !
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And can’t forget Skull Island off of Sumatra, US gets a onetime 20 IPC bonus for transporting Kong to New York. Can’t have kaiju in the game unless atomic weapons are used.
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Add terrain “types” to the map!
And then add a new piece called “Infrastructure” or “roads” which can be purchased to negate certain terrain effects in any given territory.
Not exactly “real” but atleast acknowledged!
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Add terrain “types” to the map!
And then add a new piece called “Infrastructure” or "roads"Â which can be purchased to negate certain terrain effects in any given territory.
Not exactly "real"Â but atleast acknowledged!
So what is the great idea about terrain if you can bribe your units out of it with a fistful of dollars ?
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I can make a version of the AAE40 map that has 3 areas for Noway and mountain relief. But what a bout Sweden and Finland?
Can you draw me where you want the lines, etc?
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@Imperious:
I can make a version of the AAE40 map that has 3 areas for Noway and mountain relief. But what a bout Sweden and Finland?
Can you draw me where you want the lines, etc?
The mountains are not that important, but the territory borders are.
I tried to draw the new borders on a map I downloaded and that looks like its not copyright protected too much. If it is, the Admin need to remove it.
I know exactly what the real strategical problems is, and they are not possible to reenact on the OOB A&A map. The Geo-strategy problems are exactly the same today as they were in 1939 and 1945. And I think a good strategy game map should be up to that. We dont need fantasy maps with mummy staging areas.
In case my map get deleted, South Norway should go up to Namsos in the Trondheim area, and the border line should continue out at sea, splitting sz 112 and 125. Iceland should be located in sz 124, and Greenland in sz 122, just look at a Globe and get my point. Central Norway, named “Nordland” should go from Namsos to Finnmark. The northern tip of Norway should be named Finnmark. Seazone 126 should cover both this territories. This coastline was in fact Sea Defense District nr 3 in the real world. Sz 112 and 125 is tricky but for game purpose they can stay. The great point is that Finnmark can not be defended. Even if high mountains and lots of fjords and marshes makes Finnmark almost impassable even in peacetime, this terrain makes bottleneck strongpoints with natural flank protection. So the attacking enemy need to bypass it, go through Finland. That is why we have the Lyngen Line. If you look at the map at Lyngen fjord, which continues in the Skibotn river, in the mountains behind that is a real strong defense line made by the Germans in 1944. To bypass that impassable line, the attacker would need to go through Northern Sweden, or Lappland is a better name. Not to confuse with Finnish Lappland.
The other great issue I have with the map are the seazones in the Baltic Sea. They are just derogatory. Between Sweden and Finland is the Ã…lands islands, and they block the approach into Bottenviken. If you want to sail into Bottenviken, or the new sz 115 in my map, you need to control this narrow strait. From Ã…land another sealine should go to the Baltic States, making sz 114 the new approach to Leningrad. This will not effect game play since the number of spaces between Germany and Leningrad are still the same.
And now to the Economic point. The population of this Nordic countries was low, and the GDP was low, see Mark Harrisons book, just $ 30 bill for Sweden and $ 13 bill for Norway and Finland. To comparison Poland had GDP of $ 76 billions and Italy $ 140, Germany $ 400 and USA $ 800 all 1938 numbers. So the A&A maps income of 3’s and 2 IPC are not justified. But there were lots of resources there like metallic ore, so each of this territories should have some kind of NO. The Swedish iron ore 5 IPC NO should go for control of Northern Sweden, named Lappland, and the new sz 115, protected by the Ã…land straits. Because half of the iron ore went to UK through Narvik harbour, in Central Norway, named Nordland, this place too including seazone 126 should have a 5 IPC NO, for UK. The worlds biggest nickel mine in Finland used Kirkenes harbour, giving a 5 IPC NO to both Germany and UK as long as Finland and Northern Norway, named Finnmark, are neutral, or controlled by you, in wich case the other part dont get no NO money. Also Southern Norway should have a 5 IPC NO to both Germany and UK, for trading with copper and Hydro produkts like ammoniumnitrat and glyserin used in explosives. The other vital decisive German NO should be Romanian oilfield, its the mineral fuel from Ploesti that kept the German warmachines floating. The silly OOB NO’s you get from bombed, burned, looted and scorched to ruins cities should just be abandoned.
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OK, so I worked with the seazones and this is even better
Now sz 113 is the historical correct Sea Defense District nr 1 from 1940. Sz 122 is district nr 2, and sz 125 cover district nr 3, all historical correct
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This is what Im going with on my map. Black lines are dividers and added island I could make the Denmark SZ border out to like yours and add another sz like 113 that you have but would like to see how this plays out. Single numbers are territory values and letters are for minerals that I wont put in game just yet.
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Very good, SS, except I dont think any European territory should be impassable. What I said in my former post’s was that the terrain in Finnmark favors the defender. Narrow mountain pass is a bottleneck with natural flank protection, and easy to block. But the attacker dont face any problems if the semi-impassable territory is left empty, then it is just a walk over. It is the possibility for an attacker to bypass the strong defense in Finnmark by moving through Finland, that is the main reason Finnmark was left empty in 1944 and during the Cold war. And this strategy problem is moot if you make Finnmark impassable. In that case you make the game scriptet. You make the same mistake as the other game designers, you dont trust the casual players to make the historical correct decisions, so you make it for them by designing the map and rules in a way that leave no choice. Other than that, your map is excellent, especially for an 129 years old celebrity that come to America in a sub :-D
About terrain.
Terrain makes no sense unless you combine it with winter and summer seasons.
-Mountain terrain always favor the defender, but dont effect movement during summer. In winter mountain terrain is impassable.
-Marshes are impassable during summer, but get hard surface during winter, since water freeze. That is the reason Finland always get invaded during winters.
-Forest terrain favor the defender and make movement difficult in both summer and winter.Any kind of terrain should reduce movement. Not because the Tanks in the spearhead drive slower, they dont, but because the supply chain face a lot of problems. A truck with supply use 7 times more fuel when driving in snow, cold, dirt roads in marshes or swamps, forest road, or zic zac up and down mountain passes. So basically it is 7 times more expensive to attack during winter or in terrain. We dont get that feeling playing A&A because the map designer made it the other way, he made huge wastelands into one space, commonly known as the Polar Express, and cut urban areas with highways and railways into a hotchpotch (funny word) of so many spaces it takes years to move through it. It even effect aircrafts. But it should be the other way around. Germany, Italy and France should be one space, Novosibirsk should be 3. Or, if you dont love the idea of one territory France, then add unlimited railway move to the non combat phase. Easy fix
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SS, taken from your “Blitz move” thread in the House Rule forum, someone mentioned a “primitive territory” rule, where Tanks and Mechs can only move 1 space. Not a bad idea, and for sure less complex than terrain and weather rules.
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I just misunderstood what you ment by Finnmark passable and not.
I havent changed my map yet. I will have in game any attacker that comes from Norway through the Passage and moves into Finland all defenders get a +1 on defense. This can be adjusted.
I do have Rapitusta, Mooson and Winter in weather charts. I have to tweak the chart now some what.
So ill have to go with this but probably change somewhat.T1) Spring 41 Cannot cross over Marshes
T2) Summer 41 Monsoon : No movement for motorized units in Burma area in 4
territories.
Cannot cross over Marshes.
T3 ) Winter 41 Norway : Impassable only inf can move. Finland too ?
Russia Red Territories : Motorized units only move 1.
All motorized units can travel over marshes.
Russia can declare winter 1 time in game. +1 for all Inf on D (NA 2
winters can declare 2 times. )T4) Spring 42
T5) Summer 42
T6) Winter 42T7) Spring 43
T8) Summer 43
T9) Winter 43T10) Spring 44
T11) Summer 44
T12) Winter 44Weather be the same for all years. Japan Tanks and Mechs can only move 1 in China and Burma area do to jungle. This maybe changed. This is there for to keep Japan out of Russia or at least slow them down. Do have a treaty for Russia Japan.
If you look at my game results and such in house rules youll understand more of what the game has in it. Ea country gets 2 NA at start of game.
Or go with this.
T1) Spring/Summer 41 Monsoon : All Motorized units M1 In Burma area 4 Terr.
Cannot cross over Marshes.
T2) Fall 41 Raspitusta : All Motorized units only M1 in Russian Red Territories.
T3) Winter 41 All motorized units can cross Marshes.
No Motorized Movement in or out of Norway. Finland ?
Russians can declare a winter. +1 for all Inf against axis in Red T.T4) Spring/Summer 42
T5) Fall 42
T6) Winter 42T7) Spring/Summer 43
T8) Fall 43
T9) Winter 43T10) Spring/Summer 44
T11) Fall 44
T12) Winter 44Have to figure out which weather chart works best for game.
The key is if you make the German tanks only move 1 in Raspitusta and winter in same year it may and probably slow down Germany to much. Time frame is always the issues. Spread it out better ? Have to see. Think best to go with the weaker weather chart and go with the 2nd chart so tanks can move 2 in winter but im sure this is not histroically
correct.This is what I have in game now. But now I added a few things to it.
T1) Monsoon No Motorized Movement in 4 Burma Territory Area. No Marsh
crossings.
FEC can still use the Burma Railroad.
T2) Fair
T3) Raspitusta All Motorized units M1 only in RED T. No Marsh crossing.
All Motorized units M1 only in Norway territories. Finland ?
T4) Winter Russian Inf D+1 if winter is declared 1 time per game. NA 2 times.
No motorized Movement in Norway. Finland ?
You can cross frozen Marshes now.T5) Monsoon Same for all rest of turns.
T6) Fair
T7) Raspitusta
T8) Winter
T9) Monsoon
T10) Fair
T11) Raspitusta
T12) WinterStill the sticky point is for winter are all Motorized units still able to M2 ?
This weather chart does slow down Germany but they still get 2-3 turns of good movement. last thing I want to do is change setups. Most games you will know by turns 6-8 if Axis are going to win. The goal in game is to have a winner by T10 and that is happening now.I really like this chart now. Before I add more stuff or change seasons Narvik, I need to play test this first. At least I got some weather in Norway and any attacks going through the passage into Finland gets a +1 on defense for ea piece. Just got to watch if this slows the allies down to much coming from Norway to Leningrad. But hey you need to plan your attacks in good weather !
Sorry for the long post.
Panther if need be no problem if this was moved to House rules.
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In my game if you attack a Strict Neutral nothing happens to all the other neutrals. You win battle you get territory. You lose it goes to the other side. Now if Germany attacks the Island off Sweden in the middle of the 3 sz I believe the troops on mainland Sweden are still neutral but with Sweden having 2 territories now the ground troops can move in any of those 2 territories to stack up if they want.
Or the ground troops in Sweden become Sweds and can come out of Sweden and attack Germany in Norway or Finland.
But history wise was that even possible for the Sweds to do. Best for Germany to attack all 3 Sweden territories. -
Well after reading the history on Sweden in WW2 and if its mostly true the Germans would of had a hard time just to keep Sweden plus had a huge army build up once war started,. The Germans invaded Norway also to protect the iron/ore from allies attacking from that direction. So it looks like Ill give Germany that little island once activated and for the passage of German ships through the straits.
If Germany wants to attack Sweden in game so be it.
Also will give Germany a 1 time pass in game where German ground troops can cross Sweden while neutral into Norway.Sweden also helped the allies but there huge army build up during the war gave them support to go both ways helping Germany and Allies even while neutral during the war.
Crap they got planes from Italy too.Ha looks like Sweden was the White Spy/Black Spy in WW2 if history was correct that I read.
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@SS:
In my game if you attack a Strict Neutral nothing happens to all the other neutrals.
That is historical correct, and its also the quintessence of being a neutral. Now, if you joined the war to fight on behalf of others, like UK and France did, then you never were a true neutral in the first place. Also, and I cant stress this enough, Italy, Russia and Japan were not true neutrals that had to be attacked before they could join the war, in fact they too were predators just like Germany and should be allowed to attack anyone from Turn 1.
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OK Narvik
Here is a pic of my change to Norway. Made it 3 territories now and added 1 icp value to middle territory, chip covering amount and split Finland into 2 territories and added 1 icp value. Plus I added the Sweden Island between the 3 sz.
Now if history is right I have in game now Germany can make a 1 time combat or non combat through Swedens territory once in game. If Germany wants to transport troops through sz 19 into Finland they must control the Sweden Island to pass through the Straits without being an act of war.
My weather chart has been changed also to affect any kind of Norway Movement in winter season and not. Its in above post at bottom of thread the weather chart Im going to use now in game. Moderized units move 1 in non winter and no movement in winter for Norway.You can also reach Norway from Iceland and Greenland in 2 sz.
At least now with Oslo always being a VC worth 1 point towards victory conditions in game at least they can defend it without allies just blasting into Norway and then blasting to Leningrad.
As I said before I didnt add sz113 like on your chart and let me know if Sweden is suppose to be 2 territories. But according to your map drawing its not.
Thanks for the input and info.
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Great map, you really got skills. But i think you misunderstand about the island, I dont talk about Gotland, I talk about Ã…land which is a Finnish island that block the approach into Bottenviken, or seazone 19 on your map. Se my map
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I cant find Aland island. Maybe I’m missing something here or need to look at on a computer
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