League General Discussion Thread

@dawgoneit said in League General Discussion Thread:

gamer has a lot on his plate. i think what he decides should be.

No.

With no disrespect to Gamerman, he doesnt even play in the league.

I greatly appreciate everything Gamerman does (and he does a lot) but he doesnt own the league or define it, the players in the league do and so need to decide the rules of the league.

And all this talk about flipping a coin is silly.

We have two players in the top tier playoffs with a combined total of 1 league BM3 game. One of those players has exclusivley played P2V in this league and the other mostly OOB (one game BM3, one game P2V). Most of the other players have played zero league games of OOB in the last few years. The games are so different that forcing someone to play a different game is effectively an autoloss at the high level.

Most of the participants already stated they have no interest in playing a different version than what they normally play and arent interested in forcing another player to play a different game either.

This has been an issue for several years and particularly now that P2V has been released, it needs to be addressed.

@ksmckay p2v needs its own league. way different.

@dawgoneit how can i get people to join the league that play oob and tell them that they wont be playing the game they no. 2 of them i play on saturdays wont join because of the changes. isn’t getting people to join so we can keep the site going anyways. should we do seperate leagues?

@dawgoneit if we can get people started then we can get them to try the other games

Well for the 2020 playoffs the rules are set so no crying. You know what you are signing up for. Don’t like OOB then don’t sign up. For 2021 I think the discussion can be had to change the playoff rules. I will leave PTV out of it. Its too different of a game. As for leaving it as OOB I see the merits of that. BM3 is only a mod (not perfect but a really good one) that is used in this league. I can only speak from my experience but I found this league and site after playing the OOB BOARD GAME many times amongst friends. So I would venture to say anyone coming in new to the league would have OOB as their base of knowledge. You may alienate new people with requiring BM3. Even though BM3 is better in a lot of peoples opinions no one new has the chance to play it unless they join the league. I think only after playing OOB against high end opponents do you tend to see the imbalance of OOB. At least for me that was the case. Then slowly learning and playing BM3 do you really appreciate it. And then you can weigh the pros and cons of OOB vs BM3. But IMO limiting new people to the league is more of a detriment than complaining about having to play OOB. Just my two cents.

@majikforce agreed

@majikforce

Is someone crying?

This discussion started with changing the rules and that is what it is about. The rules can only be changed at the beginning of the year and guess what that is now.

I completely agree with trulpen and ksmckay on this one, we need to be real and make what really is the predominant variant be the default. Great arguments have already been made which I won’t repeat here. I for one will automatically resign my game in protest if any of my playoff opponents insists on OOB instead of BM3. And I won’t ever participate in this league again, until we are heard on this properly. This is not like the first or even second time we’ve been asking for this, after all, and man it’s such a simple and logical request.

Simple rule change: game variant played most in the league year shall determine the default for the playoffs. Done.

@dawgoneit said in League General Discussion Thread:

@dawgoneit how can i get people to join the league that play oob and tell them that they wont be playing the game they no. 2 of them i play on saturdays wont join because of the changes. isn’t getting people to join so we can keep the site going anyways. should we do seperate leagues?

You are arguing a completely different point here. No one is stopping people from playing whatever they want in the league. We’re talking about playoffs only. Your friends can advertise exactly what they want and see if anyone is a go (including tech, dice or low luck, combat first, OOB, p2v, heck I bet they could play as revised in this league and gamer would be ok with it).

Maybe when someone signs up for the playoffs, they state which playoff they want to be in. And there can be three playoffs: OOB, BM3, and PTV

@majikforce said in League General Discussion Thread:

Well for the 2020 playoffs the rules are set so no crying. You know what you are signing up for. Don’t like OOB then don’t sign up. For 2021 I think the discussion can be had to change the playoff rules. I will leave PTV out of it. Its too different of a game. As for leaving it as OOB I see the merits of that. BM3 is only a mod (not perfect but a really good one) that is used in this league. I can only speak from my experience but I found this league and site after playing the OOB BOARD GAME many times amongst friends. So I would venture to say anyone coming in new to the league would have OOB as their base of knowledge. You may alienate new people with requiring BM3. Even though BM3 is better in a lot of peoples opinions no one new has the chance to play it unless they join the league. I think only after playing OOB against high end opponents do you tend to see the imbalance of OOB. At least for me that was the case. Then slowly learning and playing BM3 do you really appreciate it. And then you can weigh the pros and cons of OOB vs BM3. But IMO limiting new people to the league is more of a detriment than complaining about having to play OOB. Just my two cents.

There is no exclusion from the league with BM3 as default version. In the basic period the choice of opponents are free, hence also choice of version.

This only becomes a problem during the playoffs, which will hardly be the defining factor for participating in the league.

I agree that the prospect of which version is default will impact some peoples incentive to participate. Especially if you’re a very competent player. This is however true for both options.

@OwenToo said in League General Discussion Thread:

Maybe when someone signs up for the playoffs, they state which playoff they want to be in. And there can be three playoffs: OOB, BM3, and PTV

I think this is unfortunately the proper way to go.

@OwenToo said in League General Discussion Thread:

Maybe when someone signs up for the playoffs, they state which playoff they want to be in. And there can be three playoffs: OOB, BM3, and PTV

I think that is a good compromise. You may even sign up for more than one too!?

@axis-dominion said in League General Discussion Thread:

I for one will automatically resign my game in protest if any of my playoff opponents insists on OOB instead of BM3.

Don’t say that. You have me as a snack in the first round… :grin:

right now we have 3 levels of playoffs so what harm does it do to have (potentially) one OOB bracket?

First I think that’s disrespectful to say he is “crying” about it. There’s no need for that, he feels strongly about it as do many of us at the top tier. And it’s actually quite logical request, and not made for the first time mind you.

Second, it’s not as hard as you’re making it seem to transition an OOB player into BM3. The designers did a good job in ensuring it is mostly the same game but with some great enhancements. I recently introduced two of my friends in real life who were into OOB and thought it was balanced, but then I showed them the BM3 rule set and played a practice game with them, and that was that. Tanios is one of them, who picked up bm3 and enjoys it much.

@majikforce said in League General Discussion Thread:

Well for the 2020 playoffs the rules are set so no crying. You know what you are signing up for. Don’t like OOB then don’t sign up. For 2021 I think the discussion can be had to change the playoff rules. I will leave PTV out of it. Its too different of a game. As for leaving it as OOB I see the merits of that. BM3 is only a mod (not perfect but a really good one) that is used in this league. I can only speak from my experience but I found this league and site after playing the OOB BOARD GAME many times amongst friends. So I would venture to say anyone coming in new to the league would have OOB as their base of knowledge. You may alienate new people with requiring BM3. Even though BM3 is better in a lot of peoples opinions no one new has the chance to play it unless they join the league. I think only after playing OOB against high end opponents do you tend to see the imbalance of OOB. At least for me that was the case. Then slowly learning and playing BM3 do you really appreciate it. And then you can weigh the pros and cons of OOB vs BM3. But IMO limiting new people to the league is more of a detriment than complaining about having to play OOB. Just my two cents.

@oysteilo said in League General Discussion Thread:

right now we have 3 levels of playoffs so what harm does it do to have (potentially) one OOB bracket?

None. I think we have to do something like that with P2V gaining popularity and being so different from BM3 (and OOB) of course.

The trick is who gets to play in it? The league rankings are shared across all the games. So you could potentially have the top 8 signing up for all three which of course makes no sense. Or you could have it so you only sign up for 1. But I think thats a little off too because I think there is room to play multiple versions. I would like to play some P2V next year but I continue to enjoy BM3.

Separate rankings for everything would be a bit tedious but maybe? I don’t want to see different forums for different versions. That just isolates people and makes the community feel smaller.

But Id certainly be in favor of multiple tourneys. Perhaps there is the littlest bit of presige associated with league champion and that would be dulled or debated, but I think the best thing about the tournament is that it pits the best against the best in a best-of-one format.

@axis-dominion To be fair I did not specifically call anyone out for crying. Maybe a better choice of words is to complain even when you know the rules going into it. Is OOB so bad that you could never possibly get a win? I doubt that very much. That being said I am for a change in 2021 to be like you said take the predominantly played version as the playoff default. Now this talk of you resigning your game if “insisting to play OOB” I think is bad form. You knew the rules signing up for 2020 and as stated the default is OOB so the potential is there for you to have to play OOB possibly. To resign in the middle of a playoff robs someone else of the chance to play in tier 1. You should bow out now if that is your intention.

I think:

• 1 combined ranking for all games, OOB, BM, PtV etc etc
• You sign up for playoff in OOB or BM or PtV or all. Your ranking above decides you seed in the bracket, simple as that
• Everyone gets to play their prefered game(s) in the playoffs

Brilliant! That could fly!