PRO ITALIAN STRATEGY

The reason why Italy is hated by most good players is because Italian offensive ability completely relies on what UK does there turn. If they destroy Italian navy, you lost your colonies, Germany now has to help defend Rome and Italy basically has to force itself to help Germany invade USSR due to lack of navy. If UK does not attack the Italian navy, then Italy and Germany need to decided if taking over Egypt is going to be worth it while at the same time waiting to see if the allies will do Operation Torch.

Correct sir! If England carries out a successful Taranto and Tobruk, Italy is severely neutered! Naval power is gone and any chance of taking Egypt is totally gone. Trying to get national objectives and helping Germany invade Russia and protecting Rome and Normandy is what the Italian player is left with for the rest of the game.

Which is why players have been trying to find a way to get Afrika Korp into the game somehow or the other one I have seen is Germany mass an army and invade Turkey to get into the Middle East.

@Caesar:

Which is why players have been trying to find a way to get Afrika Korp into the game somehow or the other one I have seen is Germany mass an army and invade Turkey to get into the Middle East.

This Turkish plan has been on my mind for sometime. How has the gameplay on this move?

I have yet to try invade Turkey, I don’t like the idea of it personally because you have to beef against eight infantry and you turn all neutrals into pro allies which is just nice for US and UK to abuse.

Sadly this is true. Italy needs a better plan and a more long term strategy. Germany can at least let Italy take some pro-axis lands. I like to invade syria on trun one with italy and take in turn two iraq.

Italy can generally most effectively contribute to the axis cause by sending units to the Russian front in support of Germany. Italian can openers can be crucial. Italian income can be bolstered with eastern front captures against the eventual convoy disruptions in the Med, but judiciously so given the corresponding reduction in German income.

Sometimes a lesser role a little later retaking European territories from allied landings so as to minimise any distractions for Germany.

@Private:

Italy can generally most effectively contribute to the axis cause by sending units to the Russian front in support of Germany. Italian can openers can be crucial. Italian income can be bolstered with eastern front captures against the eventual convoy disruptions in the Med, but judiciously so given the corresponding reduction in German income.

Sometimes a lesser role a little later retaking European territories from allied landings so as to minimise any distractions for Germany.

Can opening and slowing the Allies is quite important. How would your strategy for the middle east or Africa look like? Should Germany concentrate on taking Egypt after defeating Moscow?

The OP’s plan would be a rapid path to victory, assuming that the Italians begin their turn with everything they start their game with.

They don’t;  most of the Italian navy gets annihilated turn 1, we refer to this as the Taranto Raid.
Also, their army can get shredded, that’s the Tobruk Raid.

If you have 10+ ground units, you may be able to just walk everything into Alexandria but under most circumstances, this is more like a dance back and forth taking and re-taking that area because neither UK nor Italy can make a stack big enough to deter a counter attack.

Germany could help, but the diversion of resources from the critical path (kill Moscow) isn’t wise, more fun.

Plan A

Take Southern France turn 1. (you could also build in Yugo but it takes much more time to build a factory then place units)  Build some navy, have the germans cross.

Pros: you get a sweet Afrika Korps and if you work really hard at it, 1 or 2 bonuses for a few turns.

Cons: you lose the game because the med is a distraction, not a key zone, and after turn 5, you won’t be able to compete against the US with either Axis power unless you are spending most of your money to simply hold them off, rather than take the big money objectives and capital.

Plan B.

Attack a bunch of strict neutrals on turn 3.    Instead of going for the heart of the allies, set up your troops at your border, and kill Sweden, Turkey and Spain all at the same time.

Pros:  Now you own a bunch of extra territory and can cross direct to the oil lands.

Cons:  you just made all the other neutrals hostile, wasted the initiative going in the wrong direction attacking a dormant power, and you spent the first four turns setting up a neutral crush instead of killing USSR.  You have to attack all three of these simultaneously, or the allies can grab them, further increasing their power when you haven’t done anything to reduce it.

My preference is playing Axis (I think most people prefer that side too).

In the actual war (good thing of course), historians have pointed out that the German forces committed to North Africa ended up being a waste, and a drain…and vice versa, not enough was committed to sustain the drive to get the Suez Canal. This is partially due to not capturing Malta where the UK airforce and naval ships there were able to sink/destroy at least 20% of the supplies/equipment being sent to reinforce German forces in N. Africa. (reference: https://www.amazon.com/Second-World-War-Mediterranean-Military/dp/0757001602) Great read!

My Italian Strategy: I’ve found that for me, the most effective Italian strategy is to usually give practically nothing to Italy in the beginning…S. France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Greece goes to Germany.

Italy needs to get a strong force to Rostov - about 9-13 ground forces. This can opener threat really keeps Russia holed up in Moscow so Germany can hold/keep Caucasus and Stalingrad. Italy can get a few more IPCs by doing some can opener attacks.

On UK1 if they go too light to SZ97 and a scramble succeeds in saving the battleship/transport, and or Tobruk fails…ect…then maybe Germany could help down there. If not, I only use the Luffwaffe to help sweep the med clean. Otherwise, for me, it’s a waste of IPCs for Germany to invest in ships to help Italy unless there is a significant chance of getting Cairo.

I have to agree with Taamvan that Afrika Korps is a fun strategy that makes for an interesting game, which will lead to certain defeat of the Axis. I tried it a number of times with the same ultimate result.
There’s really no excuse for allowing the Italians to threaten Africa either. I invite them to take Egypt because it allows me to get rid of them quicker and I don’t have to chase them all the way across North Africa. Even if Germany does a Sealion attack there are enough UK units down there to wipe out the Italian boats and ground units in Africa.

I’ve seen Italy get very successful, but unfortunately it all depends on what the UK does. One thing I’ve noticed is even if UK does a Taranto and wipes out the Tobruk force, if Germany performs a successful Sealion and Britain is without income for a few rounds, Italy can really spread throughout Africa and the Middle East. It will take awhile because Italy makes so little money but once the UK units in the Med are killed, there is nothing to replace them.
One thing I have noticed is that it is a mistake for the UK not to take out the Italian fleet at Taranto. If they leave Italy with their battleship and 2 transports, Italy will be able to do too much in the Med and do it much quicker than normal. Especially if Sealion is successful.
One strategy is for the UK to forgo Taranto and rush the Med fleet back to England to try and prevent Sealion. If I’m playing Axis, I love to see this because you basically give Italy a free hand in the Med. Once that fleet leaves the Med, Italy can take Gibraltar and close the Med off.
Some like to take UK Pacific resources from Calcutta to the Med to keep Italy in check, which works but also leaves Calcutta pretty weak for Japan.

@GeneralHandGrenade:

I invite them to take Egypt because it allows me to get rid of them quicker and I don’t have to chase them all the way across North Africa. Even if Germany does a Sealion attack there are enough UK units down there to wipe out the Italian boats and ground units in Africa.

When that happened, did Germany reinforce a captured Egypt on their next turn with 2-3 fighters and 2-3 tac. bombers? From what I’ve seen, if Italy walks into Egypt, it’s held for a long time.

@Fatespinner:

@Private:

Italy can generally most effectively contribute to the axis cause by sending units to the Russian front in support of Germany. Italian can openers can be crucial. Italian income can be bolstered with eastern front captures against the eventual convoy disruptions in the Med, but judiciously so given the corresponding reduction in German income.

Sometimes a lesser role a little later retaking European territories from allied landings so as to minimise any distractions for Germany.

Can opening and slowing the Allies is quite important. How would your strategy for the middle east or Africa look like? Should Germany concentrate on taking Egypt after defeating Moscow?

Question wasn’t addressed to me…but I would think driving through the Caucasus enroute to Cairo for the VC win is usually the natural course most players take after capturing Moscow. If Germany sacks Moscow and kills a huge stack of UK fighters and has like 10+ tanks standing, most allies surrender unless they have other critical facts established.

I’m not prejudiced, I’ll kill German troops too if they land in Egypt.  :lol:

Another issue with Italy is that you need to decide what to do with the nation once turn 3 comes around. I personally believe Germany should either invade UK or USSR while Italy captures Africa however the best I’ve ever done with Italy is capture Egypt but UK took it back and smashed Italy in North Africa effectively knocking Italy out of the war. I personally want Afrika Korp to be an issue but my idea of doing it is having Germany capture Southern France and build a fresh fleet in the med which is ill advise as Germany is wasting money building a new fleet instead of doing what other players do and use the current fleet in the North to by pass UK and open the gates for Germany to enter the med and invade via Torch. There is of course the Turkish invasion but again, by doing that, you have to smash a neutral army AND you open US and UK to take free money by capturing neutrals.

@GeneralHandGrenade:

I’m not prejudiced, I’ll kill German troops too if they land in Egypt.  :lol:

Was asking, because in the few games I’m able to walk into Egypt and follow it up with a stack of German planes, I usually hold Egypt for the game or long enough to prevent the UK from assisting Russia.  Italy is able to then reinforce with their air force and has the chance to build transports to bring more troops.

Axis win game.

Just haven’t seen what you experienced that’s all.

Has anyone tried to build an IC in Iraq? Italy can get Iraq turn 2 and hold it. I would like to try it in our current game, but I am not sure if that is a good plan.

With 1 transport, Italy can eventually take Iraq, but a strong UK player will have a fleet left over there, and the situation is to the Allies advantage unless the Axis have kept or committed more resources than in a typical game to this region through some other channel.

Plus, its pretty slow moving;  Syria I1, Iraq I2, Place Mic (with what Italian $$?) I3, Place first units I4 (again, with what $$? you’ve got jack)…

By I4, a strong UK player will have plenty of threat on the oil zone and your position is insecure, esp. when he already has 1-2 factories right next to you.

If on the other hand, the UK has virtually nothing left in that region (this is why I don’t counsel doing the T+T Tobruk+Taranto move, you lose all your Allied assets UK1), and the Italians somehow have more than anticipated on the water (2TT+), then by all means, kick open the Syrian door (this terr. is key because its placed such that you can shuck-shuck men there from Italy, land planes there, and can screen out egpyt, and can kill the UK NO by taking crete) and head for the oil, a few german planes can divert there for cover without requiring Germany to commit to a full afrika korps aid package.