Instead of escort @1 and interceptors @2 is now in BM escorts @2 and interceptors @2 ?
Then I agree with that. Promotes more bombing
PRO ITALIAN STRATEGY
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My preference is playing Axis (I think most people prefer that side too).
In the actual war (good thing of course), historians have pointed out that the German forces committed to North Africa ended up being a waste, and a drain…and vice versa, not enough was committed to sustain the drive to get the Suez Canal. This is partially due to not capturing Malta where the UK airforce and naval ships there were able to sink/destroy at least 20% of the supplies/equipment being sent to reinforce German forces in N. Africa. (reference: https://www.amazon.com/Second-World-War-Mediterranean-Military/dp/0757001602) Great read!
My Italian Strategy: I’ve found that for me, the most effective Italian strategy is to usually give practically nothing to Italy in the beginning…S. France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Greece goes to Germany.
Italy needs to get a strong force to Rostov - about 9-13 ground forces. This can opener threat really keeps Russia holed up in Moscow so Germany can hold/keep Caucasus and Stalingrad. Italy can get a few more IPCs by doing some can opener attacks.
On UK1 if they go too light to SZ97 and a scramble succeeds in saving the battleship/transport, and or Tobruk fails…ect…then maybe Germany could help down there. If not, I only use the Luffwaffe to help sweep the med clean. Otherwise, for me, it’s a waste of IPCs for Germany to invest in ships to help Italy unless there is a significant chance of getting Cairo.
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I have to agree with Taamvan that Afrika Korps is a fun strategy that makes for an interesting game, which will lead to certain defeat of the Axis. I tried it a number of times with the same ultimate result.
There’s really no excuse for allowing the Italians to threaten Africa either. I invite them to take Egypt because it allows me to get rid of them quicker and I don’t have to chase them all the way across North Africa. Even if Germany does a Sealion attack there are enough UK units down there to wipe out the Italian boats and ground units in Africa. -
I’ve seen Italy get very successful, but unfortunately it all depends on what the UK does. One thing I’ve noticed is even if UK does a Taranto and wipes out the Tobruk force, if Germany performs a successful Sealion and Britain is without income for a few rounds, Italy can really spread throughout Africa and the Middle East. It will take awhile because Italy makes so little money but once the UK units in the Med are killed, there is nothing to replace them.
One thing I have noticed is that it is a mistake for the UK not to take out the Italian fleet at Taranto. If they leave Italy with their battleship and 2 transports, Italy will be able to do too much in the Med and do it much quicker than normal. Especially if Sealion is successful.
One strategy is for the UK to forgo Taranto and rush the Med fleet back to England to try and prevent Sealion. If I’m playing Axis, I love to see this because you basically give Italy a free hand in the Med. Once that fleet leaves the Med, Italy can take Gibraltar and close the Med off.
Some like to take UK Pacific resources from Calcutta to the Med to keep Italy in check, which works but also leaves Calcutta pretty weak for Japan. -
I invite them to take Egypt because it allows me to get rid of them quicker and I don’t have to chase them all the way across North Africa. Even if Germany does a Sealion attack there are enough UK units down there to wipe out the Italian boats and ground units in Africa.
When that happened, did Germany reinforce a captured Egypt on their next turn with 2-3 fighters and 2-3 tac. bombers? From what I’ve seen, if Italy walks into Egypt, it’s held for a long time.
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@Private:
Italy can generally most effectively contribute to the axis cause by sending units to the Russian front in support of Germany. Italian can openers can be crucial. Italian income can be bolstered with eastern front captures against the eventual convoy disruptions in the Med, but judiciously so given the corresponding reduction in German income.
Sometimes a lesser role a little later retaking European territories from allied landings so as to minimise any distractions for Germany.
Can opening and slowing the Allies is quite important. How would your strategy for the middle east or Africa look like? Should Germany concentrate on taking Egypt after defeating Moscow?
Question wasn’t addressed to me…but I would think driving through the Caucasus enroute to Cairo for the VC win is usually the natural course most players take after capturing Moscow. If Germany sacks Moscow and kills a huge stack of UK fighters and has like 10+ tanks standing, most allies surrender unless they have other critical facts established.
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I’m not prejudiced, I’ll kill German troops too if they land in Egypt. :lol:
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Another issue with Italy is that you need to decide what to do with the nation once turn 3 comes around. I personally believe Germany should either invade UK or USSR while Italy captures Africa however the best I’ve ever done with Italy is capture Egypt but UK took it back and smashed Italy in North Africa effectively knocking Italy out of the war. I personally want Afrika Korp to be an issue but my idea of doing it is having Germany capture Southern France and build a fresh fleet in the med which is ill advise as Germany is wasting money building a new fleet instead of doing what other players do and use the current fleet in the North to by pass UK and open the gates for Germany to enter the med and invade via Torch. There is of course the Turkish invasion but again, by doing that, you have to smash a neutral army AND you open US and UK to take free money by capturing neutrals.
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I’m not prejudiced, I’ll kill German troops too if they land in Egypt. :lol:
Was asking, because in the few games I’m able to walk into Egypt and follow it up with a stack of German planes, I usually hold Egypt for the game or long enough to prevent the UK from assisting Russia. Italy is able to then reinforce with their air force and has the chance to build transports to bring more troops.
Axis win game.
Just haven’t seen what you experienced that’s all.
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Has anyone tried to build an IC in Iraq? Italy can get Iraq turn 2 and hold it. I would like to try it in our current game, but I am not sure if that is a good plan.
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With 1 transport, Italy can eventually take Iraq, but a strong UK player will have a fleet left over there, and the situation is to the Allies advantage unless the Axis have kept or committed more resources than in a typical game to this region through some other channel.
Plus, its pretty slow moving; Syria I1, Iraq I2, Place Mic (with what Italian $$?) I3, Place first units I4 (again, with what $$? you’ve got jack)…
By I4, a strong UK player will have plenty of threat on the oil zone and your position is insecure, esp. when he already has 1-2 factories right next to you.
If on the other hand, the UK has virtually nothing left in that region (this is why I don’t counsel doing the T+T Tobruk+Taranto move, you lose all your Allied assets UK1), and the Italians somehow have more than anticipated on the water (2TT+), then by all means, kick open the Syrian door (this terr. is key because its placed such that you can shuck-shuck men there from Italy, land planes there, and can screen out egpyt, and can kill the UK NO by taking crete) and head for the oil, a few german planes can divert there for cover without requiring Germany to commit to a full afrika korps aid package.
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With 1 transport, Italy can eventually take Iraq, but a strong UK player will have a fleet left over there, and the situation is to the Allies advantage unless the Axis have kept or committed more resources than in a typical game to this region through some other channel.
Plus, its pretty slow moving; Syria I1, Iraq I2, Place Mic (with what Italian $$?) I3, Place first units I4 (again, with what $$? you’ve got jack)…
By I4, a strong UK player will have plenty of threat on the oil zone and your position is insecure, esp. when he already has 1-2 factories right next to you.
If on the other hand, the UK has virtually nothing left in that region (this is why I don’t counsel doing the T+T Tobruk+Taranto move, you lose all your Allied assets UK1), and the Italians somehow have more than anticipated on the water (2TT+), then by all means, kick open the Syrian door (this terr. is key because its placed such that you can shuck-shuck men there from Italy, land planes there, and can screen out egpyt, and can kill the UK NO by taking crete) and head for the oil, a few german planes can divert there for cover without requiring Germany to commit to a full afrika korps aid package.
Yes you are right. It is quite slow and UK can put up a lot of thread. But if Tobruk survived, then UK can not afford to send units from Egypt to attack Iraq and even if they move to Iraq and move a lot of troops from south Africa, it distracts them and binds resources, which could be very helpful for the German conquest.
But like most plans it depends on the opponent, the current game and some luck.
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I might suggest my Taranto Lite plan
attack Taranto with 1 DD 1 CA 1 SB 1 TB 2FIG 1 SUB(BID) 7 hits vs 6 hits
this way the UK carrier can live, you buy a TT and arty for SA, and move the india fleet over with your carrier you saved, now you have a new strike force of 1CA 1CV 1DD up to 2TT (from SA, even the BB could party…if it lives) even when you keep a DD over by SZ 37? to prevent the Japanese from moving past you during combat move…this UK indian ocean fleet can be an annoyance for the rest of the game rather than stripping UK south out by going crazy UK1.
Only problems with this idea are 1) makes you vulnerable to sea lion because all your fighters left and you’re spending away from London 2) it requires the 6 bid, but a larger bid doesn’t help more because you only get 1 sea placement area during bidding in that region) 3) its an odds battle and if the Italians prevail, they keep a repaired BB and TT :( whereas you dedicated everything and it is vulnerable where it lands (Syria/crete)
If the Italians have those 8 ground troops threatening Egypt, you’re right, you’ll need to stick together (this is where SA shuck-shuck helps). But I think those guys are hopelessly stuck in a money dead zone for Italy, esp. if Taranto goes well…
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My first post - yay! Because of the ease and near necessity of the UK player doing at least Taranto and simultaneously or soon after Tobruk, the Italians always get the short end of the stick after the 1st turn. They already start out with little in the way or forces and it makes playing the Italians harder and/or an unwanted burden in a game. Boosting historical realism plus giving the Italians a fighting chance could be easily house ruled using a similar rule to those OOB rules that are in play for the US, Russia, Japan. That is, Italy is neutral until they attack a power, true neutral or allied neutral - just like reality. If it is written that Italy cannot be attacked until they conduct an attack or a DOW on a major power, it would allow them to gain a few territories (as they historically attempted) before the UK et al puts the boots to them.
I feel that this at least gives some value to the Italian forces (other than can-opening) whilst the UK could still improve their position to prepare for any potential Italian movements with their earlier movement in the round. Note, I’m not taking bidding into account as I favour maximum OOB play so I’m sure many may say this just gives the Axis yet another advantage. To that all I can say is if you play with bidding, that may mean your bids will go up. Thank you and I love this forum! -
Might it be a good strategy to move with the Italian troops from Tobruk west instead to Alexandria and Egypt (of course assuming that UK1 attack on Tobruk did not happen? Normally when the troops are moved to Alexandria, then they are killed fairly certain if they are not supported by the German airforce and often just stay there useless.
In my current game it happend that Germany lost to many aircraft during the G1 attack and thus was not able to protect my. My force got killed.
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My Italian Strategy: I’ve found that for me, the most effective Italian strategy is to usually give practically nothing to Italy in the beginning…S. France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Greece goes to Germany.
Italy needs to get a strong force to Rostov - about 9-13 ground forces. This can opener threat really keeps Russia holed up in Moscow so Germany can hold/keep Caucasus and Stalingrad. Italy can get a few more IPCs by doing some can opener attacks.
how about: Italy takes bulgaria on I1 (Germany kills yugo). Then you get 4 italian inf to help the canopening. This also have the added benefit of givint italy some inf in the front. Italy can now be used to take the terr in USSR. This is good bc germany can now land Luftwaffe in the new terr, so deadzoning is that much more difficult. As an added benefit, Luftwaffe is in an italian terr, so italy can build an Airbase on demand, making allied landings less effective. The sweet thing about this is that the allied have to assume your bombers have 7 in move and have to avoid them, so you can get the full effect of an airbase without actually building it :D
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@Team:
My first post - yay! Thank you and I love this forum!
Good points, and welcome aboard!
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My Italian Strategy: I’ve found that for me, the most effective Italian strategy is to usually give practically nothing to Italy in the beginning…S. France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Greece goes to Germany.
Italy needs to get a strong force to Rostov - about 9-13 ground forces. This can opener threat really keeps Russia holed up in Moscow so Germany can hold/keep Caucasus and Stalingrad. Italy can get a few more IPCs by doing some can opener attacks.
how about: Italy takes bulgaria on I1 (Germany kills yugo). Then you get 4 italian inf to help the canopening. This also have the added benefit of givint italy some inf in the front. Italy can now be used to take the terr in USSR. This is good bc germany can now land Luftwaffe in the new terr, so deadzoning is that much more difficult. As an added benefit, Luftwaffe is in an italian terr, so italy can build an Airbase on demand, making allied landings less effective. The sweet thing about this is that the allied have to assume your bombers have 7 in move and have to avoid them, so you can get the full effect of an airbase without actually building it :D
I usually can march the 6 starting infantry or at least 5 of them all the way to Rostov and re-build enough defenses by the time the UK or US show up at Gibraltar with transports. However, your idea does make sense as a way to help Italy’s can opener role.
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I tend to leave Greece for Italy and make Germany take Bulgaria and Yugo based on historical value. Now has anyone ever seen UK take Greece if you choose to leave it for Italy? I have never seen this because I am sure UK thinks taking Greece will weaken its position in Med. Any thoughts on this?
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