Naval questions

@simon33:

@ColonelCarter:

3. Yes. Russia doesn’t get the NO if there is at least one German, Italian or Japanese sub in SZ125, even if they are not at war with the power owning the sub.

Technically true. But the Soviets don’t get the NO (or any other NO) if not at war, regardless of the occupation of SZ125.

It does have some practical implications as well. For example, if Italy declares war on The Soviet Union in it’s second turn (I2 DOW for short), then the Soviets would get their NO because they are at war. A German submarine in SZ125 prevents that, even when Germany does not declare war on its turn.

Going to continue here in this page:

Off loading Transports, can you off load troops to more than one territory IF your transport is within other territories in that SZ? For example… SZ 36 in Pacific, can you do a multi drop off your choice, in FIC and Kwangsi?

BH

Sorry Bravehart, but no you can’t.

@Herr:

It does have some practical implications as well. For example, if Italy declares war on The Soviet Union in it’s second turn (I2 DOW for short), then the Soviets would get their NO because they are at war. A German submarine in SZ125 prevents that, even when Germany does not declare war on its turn.

I think what you are referring to here is an I2 DOW allows the peace bonus to be collected G2 while blocking the USSR from collecting bonuses or increasing its territory.

Not sure what the German sub has to do with all this though? The sub needs to be absent and the USSR needs to be at war in Europe + some other things to collect the bonus.

I think we’re getting slightly mixed up in our wording here. There’s not an actual misunderstanding on how the rule works.

Colonel Carter said:
@ColonelCarter:

3. Yes. Russia doesn’t get the NO if there is at least one German, Italian or Japanese sub in SZ125, even if they are not at war with the power owning the sub.

To which you replied:
@simon33:

Technically true. But the Soviets don’t get the NO (or any other NO) if not at war, regardless of the occupation of SZ125.

Which to me looks like you’re saying that the “even if they are not at war with the power owning the sub” part of Colonel Carter’s statement, while technically true, would never really apply because the Soviet Union would not be at war. I may be mistaken in that interpretation of your statement, of course. But I thought it useful to point out that a situation where the Soviet Union is indeed at war, but not with the owner of the submarine in SZ125, can exist and is not even entirely unusual. In that situation, the sub still prevents the Soviet Union from collecting their NO.

You are saying that if the Soviet Union is at war with Italy but not Germany and there is a German sub in SZ125? I would say you are correct (if it is even possible) but I can’t see that ever happening because Germany would join in an Italian war on USSR before the USSR’s next turn if it isn’t automatic.

@Bravehart:

Going to continue here in this page:

Off loading Transports, can you off load troops to more than one territory IF your transport is within other territories in that SZ? For example… SZ 36 in Pacific, can you do a multi drop off your choice, in FIC and Kwangsi?

BH

A single transport can’t offload into multiple territories, but if you had more than one transport, they could each offload into separate territories (i.e. one offloads 2 units into FIC, another offloads 2 units into Kwangsi)

@simon33:

You are saying that if the Soviet Union is at war with Italy but not Germany and there is a German sub in SZ125? I would say you are correct (if it is even possible) but I can’t see that ever happening because Germany would join in an Italian war on USSR before the USSR’s next turn if it isn’t automatic.

That’s indeed what I’m saying. When either Germany or Italy declares war on the Soviet Union, that doesn’t automatically trigger war with the other one. Suppose Italy declares war I2 and takes Bessarabia with its tanks, of which it has two in the initial setup. Then on Germany’s turn, Germany may or may not declare war. While declaring war allows it to take Soviet territory for itself, not doing so gives Germany the 5 IPC NO for not being at war with the Soviet Union for one more round (because the Soviets will no doubt declare war if Germany doesn’t).

And in the man time, German forces can still move into Italian-occupied Bessarabia (doing so is not an attack on Russia in that scenario), creating a threat to the Ukraine that is probably very hard to stop for the Soviets. All of that may be part of a strategy aimed at a direct drive to Moscow as opposed to an advance over a broad front. Whether or not that’s a better option at that point in time than taking additional Soviet territory, also depends on what the Soviet Union did so far. Not declaring war would also imply refraining from a northern advance towards Novgorod, but some people like to keep the Fins where they are anyway to counter any US/UK attempts on Norway, which is a pain to lose.
Finally, an Italian-led advance into the Soviet Union may put some extra money from captured territories into Italy’s pockets for as long as their advance lasts, because if the Soviets put up a stack big enough to stop them, that stack may be killed by Germany.

I’m not saying this is optimal, but I do believe it is viable.

@ColonelCarter:

@Bravehart:

Going to continue here in this page:

Off loading Transports, can you off load troops to more than one territory IF your transport is within other territories in that SZ? For example… SZ 36 in Pacific, can you do a multi drop off your choice, in FIC and Kwangsi?

BH

A single transport can’t offload into multiple territories, but if you had more than one transport, they could each offload into separate territories (i.e. one offloads 2 units into FIC, another offloads 2 units into Kwangsi)

Well it can, but not on the same turn. For example, suppose it’s a US transport with one US and one UK inf on board, then the American can land in Kwangsi and the Brit in FIC, or vice versa, because they move on different turns. Just thought I’d mention it, it’s unlikely of course.