2016 League Post Game Results Here

America can wreak quite a bit of havoc herself with a big bomber fleet.  I understand it’s most powerful for Germany, but my point stands.

JWW(allies) over Giallo

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36928.225

@MrRoboto:

It’s not just that.
If Germany pumps out 5 bombers each round (quite possible after round 5 or so), basically almost buying nothing else, what can you do? America needs to invest at least 60 IPC itself into carriers+fighters+destroyers to defend a possible landing somewhere. UK can just forget the idea of setting up a fleet in the med. Egypt and London are in constant threat, even if Italy or Germany only have 1 transport. I have lost London to 1 transport + 30 bombers before. Egypt of course, too.

The one thing that comes to mind that could help that, is a heavy KGF, investing in the atlantic with USA. But in my experience, that means doom too, since Japan is unstoppable then. .

I actually think that the Balanced Mod has put KGF back on the table.  With the USA getting all those bonuses, it really makes sense to have a strong Atlantic presence right from the start.  And as for how you deal with bombers as the Allies, the answer is simple.

You lose.

No, really!  The trick is to build those fleets, knowing the the German bomber stack will sink them.  Then build more.  Repeat as needed until you’ve got them.  It doesn’t take as long as you’d assume.  Germany makes a lot of money, but bombers are expensive.  With Balanced Mod, this is less painful for the Allies.

Every plane lost attacking Atlantic boats is a plane Russia or Africa or the middle east doesn’t have to worry about.  You have to make the Germans attack stuff sometimes, otherwise they will just project increasing power on all parts of the board, and eventually even be able to take London with 1 infantry!  :-)  :|  :wink:

I think the Strategic bomber piece is flawed for several reasons in this game.
I think the best solution is that they only fire in the first round.  Drop them bombs and go home. 
I mean if AA only shoot round 1 Strategic bombers should only drop bombs in round 1.

my 2 cents.

My other 2 cents is that the game should go back to a die to an aircraft, not roll a bunch and defender chooses.
i.e. germany attacks a stack of russians:  2ftrs, 8 bombers vs 6inf and an 2AA.  the defender shoots at 6 bombers not generic hit the ftr/s the bombers slice you up.

I think the bomber piece, and this is going back 35 years, has always been the way it is (attack anything at 4 every round) because it’s FUN
SBR used to bomb money directly - you had no choice whether to repair - and you could bomb every single IPC from your enemy by attacking a single vulnerable complex  :evil:
And then there were HEAVY bombers that rolled 3 dice a piece!  So cut the WHINING - us old school guys are just laughing!  :wink:  :wink:  :-)
Not just 3 dice a piece, but THREE HITS PER BOMBER.  Now you see, the bomber unit is there and the way it is, because it’s fun to lay waste “death from above” from long range

A single bomber could potentially take 18 IPC’s away from you, and this is a game where Russia makes 24 per turn at the beginning of the game (and then dropping) (USA makes 36), and there are no such thing as NO’s.  I know you probably know all this Infrastructure, but this is for the millenials among us (few though they may be)

I do understand the points, and the realism argument.

I would suggest choosing from this menu:

1. Increase cost of Bombers back up to 15, and consider fighters to 12 (leave over-priced tacs alone), just like they used to be.  Tanks won’t look so expensive any more :)
2. Remove the +2 SBR for Strat bombers, or make it +1.
3. What you’re saying.  Lower bomber attack value or do a 1 round thing.  Bombers attacking at 4 in air to air combat or in naval combat is ridiculous.  Very few instances of bombers actually attacking fleets in WWII to my knowledge.
4. Lower cost of Strat bomber unit and make it so it only does SBR.  No conventional attacks allowed.  Who ever heard of bombers flying over an army of 20,000 and killing them all, anyway?  And whoever heard of infantry shooting down bombers?  Or tanks shooting down bombers?  What is WRONG with this game anyway?!  :wink:

Odonis (Allies) over Stalingradski in the ‘Welcome Back to the League, Old Man’ showdown. That old man here is me.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37314.45

Stalingradski showed strong opening moves followed by a massive rules-based fumble costing him the game. He was initially bitter but will return stronger than ever. He believes that Odonis is a worthy and friendly opponent.

Gamer - you do realize that Infrastructure is pre-millenial, right?  :wink:

@Gamerman01:

I think the bomber piece, and this is going back 35 years, has always been the way it is (attack anything at 4 every round) because it’s FUN
SBR used to bomb money directly - you had no choice whether to repair - and you could bomb every single IPC from your enemy by attacking a single vulnerable complex  :evil:
And then there were HEAVY bombers that rolled 3 dice a piece!  So cut the WHINING - us old school guys are just laughing!  :wink:  :wink:  :-)
Not just 3 dice a piece, but THREE HITS PER BOMBER.  Now you see, the bomber unit is there and the way it is, because it’s fun to lay waste “death from above” from long range

Hey gamer,

Just to focus on this arguement.  Larry drastically changed the aa gun aspect of the game and it was an amazing improvement.  I think it is time for the strat bomber!  Wont happen, I’m sure though.
I dont like making them a 3 instead of a 4 or diminishing their range.
I like the one round only or strengthening aa guns the way I said, because ftrs have become a little too strong as well, removing them as bomber fodder might help in a similar way to how the balance mod has slightly strengthed cruisers and battleships…

As to 3 dice heavy bombers.  In the 86 version i always got supersubs and my opponent always got those insane stupid 3 dice bombers.  Thanks for bringing back those painful memories. :x :cry:

@Stalingradski:

Gamer - you do realize that Infrastructure is pre-millenial, right?  :wink:

“I know you probably know all this Infrastructure, but this is for the millenials among us (few though they may be)”

Read it again.  Pretty clear I knew he was an old geezer

@Infrastructure:

As to 3 dice heavy bombers.  In the 86 version i always got supersubs and my opponent always got those insane stupid 3 dice bombers.  Thanks for bringing back those painful memories. :x :cry:

See, that’s why I brought it up.  Compared to that, the German bomber strat is NOTHING!

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37275.90

Odonis (Axis) over Talleyrand19 (Allies)

just when I think I’m figuring things out, I make the worst mistake in the history of the Allied Spain strategy

Axis Dominion (Allies +23) defeats Arthur Bomber Harris (Axis)
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37332.0

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37348.0

StuckTojo (Allies) defeats Talleyrand19 (Axis)…up next, round 3

@MrRoboto:

And Arthur Bomber Harris (axis) over MrRoboto (Allies) balanced mode.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37321.0

That whole massive bomber strategy with Germany, developed about a year ago, really destroys the game. It is no fun to play against. Maybe I’m too stupid to find something against that, but if it continues to be so popular among Axis players, I don’t know if I want to continue playing the game at all, or at least the Allies.

Although we had this discussion very often, I still would to share my opinion about it. I definitely believe that the bomber strategy is not better (slightly worse) than a well executed Barbarossa.
The axis are just tough to beat if played well, even with a 25+ bid, that’s it.

For a reason I do not quite understand losing against bombers hurts somehow more and people start complaining that bombers are unbeatable.

I mean, take players like Zhukov or Adam, they are both Barbarossa lovers and only start buying bombers if this is the quickest way to put pressure on Russia (Round 4-5 usually). As far as I know both haven’t lost a single game with the Axis (unless dice have been ridiculous maybe)
So I wonder: Why doesn’t everybody complain that Barbarossa ist just unbeatable and flawed? Just buy ground units towards Russia ruthlessly the first 3-4 rounds and Germans are unstoppable. THIS is what I believe might be some kind of a flaw –> Germans pushing brutal on Russia PLUS great execution forces Allies to ask for 32+ bids.

Bombers are annoying for the Allies as the make the game dicey, so there is no safe way to stop them. However many games have been reported where dark skies failed. And interestingly, in the top competition of this league dark sky is rarely executed, and to me its no surprise why :)

Rubioton+12 Allies over Surprise Attack
36915.1
One of these days I’ll get my game plan figured out

@JDOW:

So I wonder: Why doesn’t everybody complain that Barbarossa ist just unbeatable and flawed? Just buy ground units towards Russia ruthlessly the first 3-4 rounds and Germans are unstoppable. THIS is what I believe might be some kind of a flaw –> Germans pushing brutal on Russia PLUS great execution forces Allies to ask for 32+ bids.

Yep, they’re going to take over Moscow in that scenario.  UNLESS the Allies put enough pressure on them to stop it.  Allies need to do their job is the thing.  I also prefer this strat.  Buy slow moving ground units for 3-4 rounds (sometimes longer, depending) and just march them to Russia.  Bombers early on can work, but this strat is a guarantee.

Stalingradski (Allies +23) over Tallyrand19 (Axis)

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37263.315