@barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@SS-GEN
Canadian escort carrier just sank the last U-boat in rd 7 lol
That’s not right ! Retest please. Lol
@SS-GEN
There was 5 of them and a ASW plane off the cv lol. Hey they were chasing him for the last 3 RDs lol He did some damage too, besides tying up some needed defensive fodder LOL !!!
@SS-GEN Yeah… Did some limited testing. Combat mechanics only, not tried the economical changes. Really liked the new submarines. Did a sneak attack on the British fleet in Scapa flow and sunk a BB (with 2 points of damage per hit and target selection for submarine sneak attack). Subs got caught afterwards and failed an ASW roll so they were sunk. Still, pretty good result!
@barnee Do you explicitly have escort carriers or do you abstract them?
@mAIOR said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@barnee Do you explicitly have escort carriers or do you abstract them?
Sorry mAIOR could you dumb that down for me a little bit. i’m not sure what you’re asking :)
Do you mean if they’re real ? Sorry dude legitimately don’t know, but if so, yea an actual unit:
Pilots got pissed since they didn’t get any accolades
@barnee Yes, I was asking if they were a real unit ^^
I was thinking about ways of abstracting them into DD squadrons as a form of general ASW units or fleet destroyers depending on where they were placed.
right on. I kinda got the abstract thing it was the other that threw me. How’s the playtest going ?
@barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
right on. I kinda got the abstract thing it was the other that threw me. How’s the playtest going ?
Early days. I hope to get the brunt of it done over the weekend with proper 10k rolls and stuff like that. So far it feels good.
Submarines seem to be useful for hit and run tactics if they can escape. I ended up choosing for naval scale, BBs represent 2 ships and CVs represent either 4 light carriers or two fleet carriers (so that the air wing size of 100 planes makes sense).
I am redoing OOB in my spare time for the game as well so we have a more accurate force composition to the situation in 1940.
Oh and I think only Japanese and American carriers will be able to load 2 air wings at the start too. British and German carriers had quite smaller air wings (but had armoured decks so maybe an extra hitpoint?).
Right on. I got ya now. You’re trying to decide how many dudes a unit represents. Kinda ? Anyway, you’ll still use the minatures to represent. Looking forward to what you come up with.
@barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
Right on. I got ya now. You’re trying to decide how many dudes a unit represents. Kinda ? Anyway, you’ll still use the minatures to represent. Looking forward to what you come up with.
Yeah. I feel it can make the game more consistent. One thing that always bothered me was the on off combat system for instance where you “killed” a unit in combat in one hit. These units are meant to represent divisions or something (I think corps is the better scale for this game) a division or a corp doesn’t disappear in one hit. And ships being fully destroyed was not that common either and neither were air wings. You could damage it but more likely than not it wouldn’t be all the planes in a wing would be shot down.
So yeah, trying to make it more consistent and then balancing it around it.
sounds good. triplea allows units to take multiple hits so, if you ever want to try and convert it to digital it may be possible. Not as fun necessarily, but as Black Elk says, it’s a lot easier to test stuff that way.
@mAIOR said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
right on. I kinda got the abstract thing it was the other that threw me. How’s the playtest going ?
Early days. I hope to get the brunt of it done over the weekend with proper 10k rolls and stuff like that. So far it feels good.
Submarines seem to be useful for hit and run tactics if they can escape. I ended up choosing for naval scale, BBs represent 2 ships and CVs represent either 4 light carriers or two fleet carriers (so that the air wing size of 100 planes makes sense).
I am redoing OOB in my spare time for the game as well so we have a more accurate force composition to the situation in 1940.
Oh and I think only Japanese and American carriers will be able to load 2 air wings at the start too. British and German carriers had quite smaller air wings (but had armoured decks so maybe an extra hitpoint?).
IMO, you should enlarge your scale:
1 Fighter: Escort or Light Carrier
2 Fighters: UK’s Carrier
3 Fighters: US or IJN Carriers
Yes there is at least one thread talking about different way of scaling Carriers.
Here is how I see the scaling in combat power:
a) 1 hit, 1 aircraft (this one is usually around 9 or 10 IPCs) I prefer 9 (scale of 3 IPCs)
b) 1 hit, 2 aircraft (may use a 12 IPCs range, like it is in OOB 1941)
c) 1 hit, 3 aircraft (maybe at 15 IPCs, it would be correctly incremented)
d) 2 hits, 2 aircraft OOB G40 at 16 IPCs
e) 2 hits, 3 aircraft at 20 IPCs (because it is well rounded, lol)
Now, it is up to you to decide for A/D capacity.
We have seen:
A0 D1, 1 hit
A1 D1, 1 hit
A0 D2, 2 hits
A1 D2, 1 hit (1941 and 1942)
A1 D2, 2 hits (1942 Redesigned version actually tested on WW2, V5 TripleA map)
A1 D3, 2 hits My own houserule with Fg A2 D2 on board.
A1 vs D3 was needed to help a Full Carrier being better at defense than offense because my Fighter type is even offense/defense.
Giving a minimal attack factor to Carrier help makes all warships equal because with “0” you get a special capacity rule: like it was a defenseless Transport but is not, may it enter a Sub infested zone with escort or not, etc.
@baron-Münchhausen Hmmmmm… I have issues with that. As I said, I don’t want a single hit to completely remove aircraft. And remember that I am considering that each carrier figure represents 2 fleet carriers or 4 light carriers so capacities are similar. Carriers outside of the US at this scale will have half capacity and maybe an extra hitpoint (because they had armoured decks).
As I said, I will try this over the weekend and will get some results for Monday.
@mAIOR
I don’t see why you cannot use 3 planes Carrier.
Also, with half damaged aircraft sculpt, you are going to a lot of micromanaging stuff. Are you sure you want to go that way? It will be detrimental to overall strategy gaming experience.
By suggesting 3 planes, instead of doubling the number of sculpt. Which is not possible on actual plastic carrier. You can go from 2 toward 3. x1.5 increase in numbers of aircraft. A Fighter A3 D4 C10 is of similar strength per IPC invested to Fg A1.5 D2 C7. And you get 3 Fighter C7 for about the cost of 2 Fighter C10.
It is possible to work with 1914 values for Fighter.
Even Fighter cost 6 A2 D2, if Tank worth 5 IPCs.
TcB cost 7 A3 D2.
On your set up, for each pair of Fg or TcB, you can add 1 aircraft of your choice (either Fg or TcB).
It remains within workable size when going for the first game round with more and more units on board, which take more times to figure and move toward a specific location for combat.
HTH
@mAIOR said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@baron-Münchhausen Hmmmmm… I have issues with that. As I said, I don’t want a single hit to completely remove aircraft. And remember that I am considering that each carrier figure represents 2 fleet carriers or 4 light carriers so capacities are similar. Carriers outside of the US at this scale will have half capacity and maybe an extra hitpoint (because they had armoured decks).
As I said, I will try this over the weekend and will get some results for Monday.
Another way to increase the number of warships sculpts (without going nuts with plastic chips under each unit) on your map board is to reduce their relative strength and cost. For instance, using:
Destroyer A1 D1 Cost 5 is a tool.
That way, your
Cruiser can be A2 D2 Cost 7
Carrier A0 D1 Cost 8, 1 hit, 3 planes (USN and IJN)
Carrier A0 D2 Cost 10-11 or 12, 2 hits, 2 planes (RN)
Battleship A3 D3, 2 hits Cost 12
This is just an example of scaling down warships roster so for the same number of IPCs group, you have more units in a given SZ, for a similar firepower.
So instead of a Full Carrier of 36 IPCs with only 2 Fighters.
You get (suppose Fg A2 D2 Cost 6): same for 22 IPCs.
(26 IPCs) USN and IJN Carrier A0 D1 Cost 8, 1 hit and 3 Fg (18 IPCs)
(22-23-24 IPCs) RN Carrier A0 D2 Cost 10-11-12, 2 hits and 2 Fg (12 IPCs)
In the last case, you mostly get 3 RN full Carrier (66-69-72 range) for the cost of 2 OOB fully loaded Carrier (72 IPCs).
@mAIOR said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
right on. I kinda got the abstract thing it was the other that threw me. How’s the playtest going ?
Early days. I hope to get the brunt of it done over the weekend with proper 10k rolls and stuff like that. So far it feels good.
Submarines seem to be useful for hit and run tactics if they can escape. I ended up choosing for naval scale, BBs represent 2 ships and CVs represent either 4 light carriers or two fleet carriers (so that the air wing size of 100 planes makes sense).
I am redoing OOB in my spare time for the game as well so we have a more accurate force composition to the situation in 1940.
Oh and I think only Japanese and American carriers will be able to load 2 air wings at the start too. British and German carriers had quite smaller air wings (but had armoured decks so maybe an extra hitpoint?).
So I see where your going now. Something to this effect.
BB= 2 BB’s. 4 hits each BB
CR= 2 CR’s. 3 or 4 hits each CR.
AC= 2 AC’s or 4 EscAC. US, Jap 2 hits each AC. 2 or 3 planes.
AC= 2 AC’s or 4 EscAC. UK, Ger 3 or 4 hits each AC. 2 planes. 1 or 2 dam 1 plane only.
DD= 1 ship. 1 hit each ship
SS= 1 ship. 1 hit each sub
Fig = 2 planes. 2 hits each fig plane
Tac= 2 planes. 2 hits each Tac plane
Stg.= 2 planes. 2 hits each Stg plane
maybe your planes could be fig = 3 planes 2 hits.
What ever you feel is historic. Basically you looking for correct hit status based on Divisions or corps like you mentioned. Ground is a different animal a bit.
@baron-Münchhausen said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@mAIOR said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@baron-Münchhausen Hmmmmm… I have issues with that. As I said, I don’t want a single hit to completely remove aircraft. And remember that I am considering that each carrier figure represents 2 fleet carriers or 4 light carriers so capacities are similar. Carriers outside of the US at this scale will have half capacity and maybe an extra hitpoint (because they had armoured decks).
As I said, I will try this over the weekend and will get some results for Monday.
Another way to increase the number of warships sculpts (without going nuts with plastic chips under each unit) on your map board is to reduce their relative strength and cost. For instance, using:
Destroyer A1 D1 Cost 5 is a tool.
That way, your
Cruiser can be A2 D2 Cost 7
Carrier A0 D1 Cost 8, 1 hit, 3 planes (USN and IJN)
Carrier A0 D2 Cost 10-11 or 12, 2 hits, 2 planes (RN)
Battleship A3 D3, 2 hits Cost 12This is just an example of scaling down warships roster so for the same number of IPCs group, you have more units in a given SZ, for a similar firepower.
So instead of a Full Carrier of 36 IPCs with only 2 Fighters.
You get (suppose Fg A2 D2 Cost 6): same for 22 IPCs.
(26 IPCs) USN and IJN Carrier A0 D1 Cost 8, 1 hit and 3 Fg (18 IPCs)
(22-23-24 IPCs) RN Carrier A0 D2 Cost 10-11-12, 2 hits and 2 Fg (12 IPCs)In the last case, you mostly get 3 RN full Carrier (66-69-72 range) for the cost of 2 OOB fully loaded Carrier (72 IPCs).
I see where Baron’s going with now. You’ll need chips under each piece based on 4 hits each or 3 or what ever it is.
Now this is a what if you on setup doubled the pieces on map and they were at half there cost and values ? Kinda like Baron’s numbers he just posted probably better based on spamming and use the normal hits on each piece.
Like each BB 2 hits, US JAP AC 1 hit each, UK GER AC 2 hits each and 1 plane 1 hit each.
Ya that’s some testing there for sure.
You have another person to test against ? More people the better which you probably know. You got people that can test in person ?
@SS-GEN
Gotta Social Distance.
Not you personally baron. :)
Bob Dylan "Times They Are A Changing " LOL
@barnee said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
@SS-GEN
Gotta Social Distance.Not you personally baron. :)
Bob Dylan "Times They Are A Changing " LOL
Ya sucks right now. No games
