@SuperbattleshipYamato veery well reasoned. As an aside, I always thought 4 Inf was too many for Bulgaria anyway.
G40 Delta 1st Edition
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@Young:
Also, the Chinese artillery option seems a little bit lopsided for the Allies to me, IMHO.
Perhaps you’re right, I’ll have to revaluate.
The alternate “Hump” and “Ledo Road” suggestions I made (which by the way don’t need to be both implemented; if I had to pick just one, I’d pick The Hump) might help in this regard because, unlike the original proposal, they put a limit on how much artillery China can buy.
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@Young:
Understood, however, I still like the way mutual allies rolls off the tongue, do you have anything better than Regional Allies?
Well, I’m not sure how well it would fit your concept but a phrase that I think sounds nice (and which I’ve heard applied to both the Soviet/Anglo-American pairing) is “Improbable Allies”. Other adjectives along those lines (such as unlikely) could also be substituted.
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@CWO:
@Young:
Understood, however, I still like the way mutual allies rolls off the tongue, do you have anything better than Regional Allies?
Well, I’m not sure how well it would fit your concept but a phrase that I think sounds nice (and which I’ve heard applied to both the Soviet/Anglo-American pairing) is “Improbable Allies”. Other adjectives along those lines (such as unlikely) could also be substituted.
“Logistical Allies”?
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@Young:
“Logistical Allies”?
I think this lacks a certain inspirational oompf. The wartime partnership between the Allied nations wasn’t just a matter of shipping stuff to each other (as vital as logistics were in WWII), it was also very much a comrades-in-arms combat relationship, with large additional quantities of politics, economics, R&D, and strategic planning. Hmm…there’s a thought: how about Comrades in Arms?
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@CWO:
@Young:
“Logistical Allies”?
I think this lacks a certain inspirational oompf. The wartime partnership between the Allied nations wasn’t just a matter of shipping stuff to each other (as vital as logistics were in WWII), it was also very much a comrades-in-arms combat relationship, with large additional quantities of politics, economics, R&D, and strategic planning. Hmm…there’s a thought: how about Comrades in Arms?
Maybe, but “comrades” sounds a little Russian
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@Young:
@CWO:
@Young:
“Logistical Allies”?
I think this lacks a certain inspirational oompf. The wartime partnership between the Allied nations wasn’t just a matter of shipping stuff to each other (as vital as logistics were in WWII), it was also very much a comrades-in-arms combat relationship, with large additional quantities of politics, economics, R&D, and strategic planning. Hmm…there’s a thought: how about Comrades in Arms?
Maybe, but “comrades” sounds a little Russian
How about Brothers in Arms?
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Perfect!
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Got a couple of concerns through PM that the R2 Advantages for Germany are heavily tilled in favor of “Blitzkrieg” due to the sure fire strategy of Barbarossa vs. “Enigma” and the always risky strategy of Sealion.
One concern is that Enigma doesn’t really contribute to a Sealion, even with the extra dice to convoy, and the other concern is that tactical bombers are only $1 cheaper than a fighter making them to powerful with an unsupported attack @4.
I am thinking about modifying the R2 pairing to either…
1. weaken both, or
2. strengthen Enigma.here are my thoughts…
Enigma
German submarines now attack at 3 or less, and now receive 3 dice each when conducting convoy disruptions.1. Remove the 3rd die for convoy disruptions
2. give a +1 to all successful convoy disruptions and a 3rd die
2. give a +2 to all successful convoy disruptions and remove the 3rd dieor
Blitzkrieg
Each German mechanized infantry can now blitz alone, and transport an artillery unit up to 2 spaces during their non-combat phase. Also, German tactical bombers now attack @4 or less without needing the support of fighters or tanks (not applicable in sea zones).1. Remove the following. German tactical bombers now attack @4 or less without needing the support of fighters or tanks (not applicable in sea zones)
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@Young:
A question: your original phrasing seemed to suggest that the US received one bomb per game, while the new phrasing suggests that it’s one bomb per turn. Maybe I read the original phrasing incorrectly, but which is the intended meaning?
It’s one bomb per game, I’ll make sure the wording is clear.The more I look at this, maybe it should be after a certain turn, maybe turn 12 that the US gets Enola Gay, as a game changer if the game is even at that point. What happens if the US player rolls thirty in 3 rounds and this becomes an early game changer?
It’s impossible to roll 30 in 3 rounds, the most that can be achieved in 3 rounds is 18. plus making progress rolls adds excitement from round to round for the American player.
You’re right. Sorry. Read over it too quickly and thought it was two dice.
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@Young:
A question: your original phrasing seemed to suggest that the US received one bomb per game, while the new phrasing suggests that it’s one bomb per turn. Maybe I read the original phrasing incorrectly, but which is the intended meaning?
It’s one bomb per game, I’ll make sure the wording is clear.The more I look at this, maybe it should be after a certain turn, maybe turn 12 that the US gets Enola Gay, as a game changer if the game is even at that point. What happens if the US player rolls thirty in 3 rounds and this becomes an early game changer?
It’s impossible to roll 30 in 3 rounds, the most that can be achieved in 3 rounds is 18. plus making progress rolls adds excitement from round to round for the American player.
You’re right. Sorry. Read over it too quickly and thought it was two dice.
No problem, I was sure there had to be some misunderstanding involved.
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@CWO:
@Young:
I really want China to build artillery without needing the road, so I was kinda reaching. Is there any acceptable explanation that we could realistically and historically frame this rule around CWO Marc?
There won’t be any more advantages or rules added, just that the ones you see will get tweaked for balance and/or relative historical accuracy.I’d propose changing the current China rule into the following pair of rules (for which I’ve left some values as blanks for you to fill in, depending on which numbers you think would work best).
The Hump
Beginning with the entry of the United States into the war, China can purchase x artillery units per turn, provided that India and Szechwan are both under the control of an Allied power. � This option is available to China regardless of whether or not the Burma Road is open for use by the Allies.Ledo Road
Beginning on turn [y, corresponding roughly to 1944], China can purchase z artillery units per turn, provided that India and Yunnan are both under the control of an Allied power. � This rule only applies when Burma is controlled by an Axis power, and it does not require Szechwan to be under Allied control. � When India, Burma, Yunnan and Szechwan are all under Allied control, the normal Burma Road rules apply.The rationale for the first rule is that the Americans were able to fly some supplies to China over the Himalayas. � The upside was that this method did not require the Burma Road to be operational; the downside was that its capacity was limited by the great difficulties involved in flying this route – hence the need to put an x imit on how much artillery can be purchased by China in this way. � As compensation, the Flying Tiger requirement in your original rule has been dropped.
The rationale for the second rule is that the Allies were able to bypass the Japanese-controlled southern sections of the Burma Road by building a road connecting northern India to a northern section of the Burma Road. � By the way, the z number in this rule should be smaller than the x number of the previous rule because the Ledo Road only ended up delivering between one-sixth and one-tenth of the tonnage that was flown in over the Hump air-route (which remained in operation until the end of the war).
Not to dismiss your suggestions, but how about this?
Military Support
China may always purchase artillery units, however, they may also purchase tanks if the Burma road is open. -
Here’s an old Strategic Advantage that got dropped in favor of something else, but I’ve found a fun way to include it into the Alternative Rules (also gives the axis more weight when balancing the ARs).
Propaganda
During their purchase new units phase of each turn, Germany may roll an attempt @6 on 1 die in order to influence a Strict Neutral territory of their choice into joining the Nazi cause. They may decide to make an attempt during a turn, or pass and save it for a later round. If / when successful, Germany will immediately take control of the standing army on the chosen strict neutral territory without the need of occupying it first, and without provoking the remaining strict neutral territories into joining the allies. There may only be one successful propaganda attempt per game (this rule is void if all strict neutrals turn pro-axis). -
@Young:
Here’s an old Strategic Advantage that got dropped in favor of something else, but I’ve found a fun way to include it into the Alternative Rules (also gives the axis more weight when balancing the ARs).
Propaganda
During their purchase new units phase of each turn, Germany may roll an attempt @6 on 1 die in order to influence a Strict Neutral territory of their choice into joining the Nazi cause. They may decide to make an attempt during a turn, or pass and save it for a later round. If / when successful, Germany will immediately take control of the standing army on the chosen strict neutral territory without the need of occupying it first, and without provoking the remaining strict neutral territories into joining the allies. There may only be one successful propaganda attempt per game (this rule is void if all strict neutrals turn pro-axis).I actually like this one better than the old one. I could see a lot of fun scenarios with this.
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@Young:
Here’s an old Strategic Advantage that got dropped in favor of something else, but I’ve found a fun way to include it into the Alternative Rules (also gives the axis more weight when balancing the ARs).
Propaganda
During their purchase new units phase of each turn, Germany may roll an attempt @6 on 1 die in order to influence a Strict Neutral territory of their choice into joining the Nazi cause. They may decide to make an attempt during a turn, or pass and save it for a later round. If / when successful, Germany will immediately take control of the standing army on the chosen strict neutral territory without the need of occupying it first, and without provoking the remaining strict neutral territories into joining the allies. There may only be one successful propaganda attempt per game (this rule is void if all strict neutrals turn pro-axis).I actually like this one better than the old one. I could see a lot of fun scenarios with this.
Yep, don’t know if you’ve seen the changes to “Russian Winter” and “The Manhattan Project” but these and “Propaganda” are all similar in the sense that you have to earn them.
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Some minor changes tonight…
1. I’ve renamed “Alternative Rules” to “Fortunes of War”
2. I’ve renamed “Propaganda” to “Nazi Propaganda”
3. I’ve eliminated the FOW that allows China to build artillery without the road.
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Propaganda should be named “Fifth Column” which is exactly the practice that Germany employed to sway neutrals. look it up.
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@Imperious:
Propaganda should be named “Fifth Column” which is exactly the practice that Germany employed to sway neutrals. look it up.
I had no idea, and no need to look it up, your intel is good enough for me… thanks for the excellent feedback.
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IL,
Would it be proper terminology to call it “German Fifth Column” or “Nazi Fifth Column”?
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@Young:
@Young:
Here’s an old Strategic Advantage that got dropped in favor of something else, but I’ve found a fun way to include it into the Alternative Rules (also gives the axis more weight when balancing the ARs).
Propaganda
During their purchase new units phase of each turn, Germany may roll an attempt @6 on 1 die in order to influence a Strict Neutral territory of their choice into joining the Nazi cause. They may decide to make an attempt during a turn, or pass and save it for a later round. If / when successful, Germany will immediately take control of the standing army on the chosen strict neutral territory without the need of occupying it first, and without provoking the remaining strict neutral territories into joining the allies. There may only be one successful propaganda attempt per game (this rule is void if all strict neutrals turn pro-axis).I actually like this one better than the old one. I could see a lot of fun scenarios with this.
Yep, don’t know if you’ve seen the changes to “Russian Winter” and “The Manhattan Project” but these and “Propaganda” are all similar in the sense that you have to earn them.
I think those are all great. I like how you did the Manhattan Project especially, because It’s not a “set” thing that US will succeed.
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I am thinking about modifying the R2 pairing to either…
1. weaken both, or
2.strengthen Enigma.
…
Enigma
German submarines now attack at 3 or less,and now receive 3 dice each when conducting convoy disruptions.1. Remove the 3rd die for convoy disruptions
2. give a +1 to all successful convoy disruptions and a 3rd die
2. give a +2 to all successful convoy disruptions and remove the 3rd dieor
Blitzkrieg
Each German mechanized infantry can now blitz alone, and transport an artillery unit up to 2 spaces during their non-combat phase.Also, German tactical bombers now attack @4 or less without needing the support of fighters or tanks (not applicable in sea zones).1. Remove the following. German tactical bombers now attack @4 or less without needing the support of fighters or tanks (not applicable in sea zones)
things i agree are in Navy colour,
German tacs will attack @ 4 99% of time since they are almost always attacking w some tanks or at least FTRs,
this should be balanced enough, btw I am going to play test today