@Young:
This will be a relatively raw response to your post as I’m currently on my iPhone.
That sucks. Please do not rush on my account.
@Young:
It would be difficult for Germany to really know when Russian winter will happen unless the Russians only needed 1 more progress point. Even then (like you said) a full retreat of German infantry is to much of an anti strategy and logistic undertaking. Besides, what if Germany goes through all that trouble, and then Russia rolls snake eyes?
Well, if Russia needs 4 or fewer points to achieve their Progress advantage… they have an 67% chance of getting it. Good enough for Germany to take the gamble or at least know that it is likely coming. Feasibility of pulling back infantry is another issue, but outcomes of the next Turn Progress roll can be assumed. And snake eyes? I thought PA rolls were done with 1 die? Did I miss a revision?
@Young:
Your second example of this loop hole is a better one, but very difficult to fix. Besides, if Japan is capable of attacking the fleet with odds and the possibility of ECC is next turn, than maybe that’s the push they need in order to attack. However, if they make a suicide run just cause America is gonna get ECC, than I personally would wait and see what happens, besides, Japan has a nice PA in kamikaze honor that would defend nicely against ECCs, it’s just a matter of who gets there first. Another way of looking at it is, if you take out the carriers before hand, aren’t you basically handing him the other SO?
These are all things that would need to factor into decisions on either side. I was more just making the point that everyone knows that a given Strategic Advantage is coming and they will or might make moves based on that knowledge. I don’t see anything positive coming from this. It is an outside and uncontrollable force having influence on what happens in the game. If the Strategic Advantage system is something that proves to be workable or most people do not mind it, then I suppose my concerns do not matter.
@Young:
I totally understand what your saying about the allies abandoning cities in order to retake for $2 which would be a major problem if it became a consistent gambit. However, that is an anti strategy completely dependent on the enemy taking the bait, so this actually promotes strategies that not only take the city, but also hold the city (which ain’t a bad thing).
My comment about abandoning and re-taking was more me playing devil’s advocate than anything else. However, whether intentional or not, this will end up happening to virtually all cities in main battle areas. (IF… even retaking your own city will earn you the bonus - which is currently stated on Page 1)
If Leningrad is taken by Germany even once in the game, the Novgorod territory is worth 4 IPCs for everyone from that point on. Somebody will always be collecting that bonus… whether it be Germany, Russia from retaking it or some other Power. Same goes for Cairo, Warsaw, Stalingrad or any other city in the game. Heck, if the Japanese take Manila and the US retakes it, they will forever get 4 IPCs for having the Philippines (not to mention the 5 IPC bonus they get for having it too. That is a lot of money.)
Some method will need to be devised for showing which cities are now “active bonus cities”, where someone is collecting money from them. I suppose it could just be based on memory of who has attacked who, but seems like something to denote who has the bonus would be appropriate.
This brings up a question: Who retains the City Bonus when Britain liberates Leningrad (or an equivalent scenario)? Does Britain get it for actually taking the city? Does Russia get it because it is now a Russian territory again?
@Young:
Russia only gathers SOs when at war, and I will make the proper notes in post #1, also… in our games the rounds in which Russia gains an NO for lend lease is very limited, that’s why I split it so that there was a chance they get $5 every round for no allied units (especially now that I took the Iraq gambit away from them).
Why is it limited? In my experience the Lend Lease is not very difficult for USSR to achieve for at least 3 whole Turns. (Particularly if you separate the Allied Units rule, but even with it combined). And do you mean that Russia gets the bonus if there are no enemy warships in SZ 125 or 127? Right now your rules say if SZ 120 (which is Hudson Bay) is free of warships… don’t think that is correct.
Assuming you mean either SZ 125 or 127… Turns 1 and 2 Germany usually has subs or other ships in, or in range of, these zones. However, Russia is not typically at war yet anyway so can’t collect the bonus. By Turn 3, the Royal Navy or Air Force is generally rebuilt enough to not allow German ships to sit in those zones. Also, it typically takes Germany a minimum of 3 Turns (from the time they attack Russia) to reach Archangel. Even by Turn 4 or 5 I do not normally see Allied units in Russia… USA can barely get there yet and has other worries and Britain has her hands very full and going into Novgorod is usually out of the way. This way Russia would get 10 bonus IPCs per turn as opposed to 5. I cannot argue with your own experience, but the above has generally been mine.
All of this makes me think that there may be too many bonuses for Russia, hearkening back to the comment in my previous post.
@Young:
As far as your opinions about the R&D phase, I also like some things about it and I’ve tried my best to incorporate those ellements. I had a rule that gave 1 free dice when spending to R&D and many players attempted way more than before, but the last 5 games not one 6 got rolled and players lost a lot of money over that period of games.
That is a nice incentive. But you really need some new dice or something. Somebody put the Voodoo on those. FIVE whole games with freebie research dice for those interested (meaning at least two dice per try?), with an average of 7 Turns per game… and NOT ONE six was rolled! Man those are some great dice for actual gameplay, but not so much on Research. :-o
@Young:
I agree with you in the sense that our games as well are very developed by round 7 and end there or very soon after. However, some players here will play all through the night (as I did before I got married) and I wouldn’t want to deny them the excitement of late round strategies and stories. Besides, it’s much to late to make a change like doubling up on rounds.
Oh, I remember the days of playing all through the night. Still happens on occasion, but not as much because we are generally very efficient. Two people going at once… Otherwise everyone else is just twiddling their thumbs waiting for strategy to be thought out. Global games take F-O-R-E-V-E-R if you do not overlap individual turns.
But why is it too late to change to doubling up Strategic Advantage? Seems like a simple change of wording and you have done it. I thought this was a work in progress? :wink: