Interesting situation. That never came up in playtesting.
If a loaded transport strikes a mine, any units that were loaded after the transport entered the mined sea zone are returned to the territory or territories they were loaded from. As the movement phase is over, they can’t move anywhere else. They’re just sitting on the docks waiting for a ship that will never come.
I think if this is the case it needs an actual change and notation in the FAQ/Errata. The rules clearly state that you roll at the end of the move phase, after all movement is done. The cargo would already have moved by the time the mines take effect.
The UK needs to be shucking units into Karelia from turn 3 onwards. It can also move the Indian army north to support Sevastopol. If you can force the straits (KO the Turkish navy) then France can also contribute. Russia cannot survive alone against 3 enemies, but it isn’t intended to.
Can you give an alternate/optional initial setup for Russia, especially for infantry? I am not really interested in rehashing the reasons for and against, but I will say that when playing it was too easy for the Central Powers to press into Russia while not being faced with a similar threat from Russia. Six infantry in the frontier territories is far too weak for Russia to have any chance of posing a challenge.
A strong A-H drive into Ukraine puts the CPs on the Russian doorstep far too quickly and thrashes the weak Russian economy too violently. So that is my question… what setup (for Russia) can I use to balance against this, in keeping with some of the game�s original design? This is regardless of playing with the RR rule in effect (or not). It would also keep the preexisting Central Powers setup on the Eastern Front. Thanks!
Guys this is a Q & A thread (and we’ve all miss used it). I think you should make a thread about Russian strats that might include allied intervention. JMO, and I would definitely join in
I think if this is the case it needs an actual change and notation in the FAQ/Errata. The rules clearly state that you roll at the end of the move phase, after all movement is done. The cargo would already have moved by the time the mines take effect.
Read it again. There is no conflict with the rule.
From pages 16-17:
“Any units aboard a transport are considered cargo until they offload. Cargo cannot take part in sea combat and is destroyed if the transport is destroyed.”
“At the end of this phase, the player controlling the corresponding territory (or the original controller if it’s contested) rolls one die for each of your ships that moved into or through each enemy minefield sea zone. Each ship is called out one at a time and one die is rolled. A roll of 1 will mean the removal of the ship, except for undamaged battleships, which instead become damaged.”
Mines are rolled, according to the rulebook, AFTER the movements. The cargo becomes cargo before the dice are rolled, and remains cargo through the mine roll if they don’t unload that turn or if the plan is to unload after clearing the SZ. Come to think of it, according to the rulebook, transports that unload without combat can still unload their cargo even if struck by a mine:
“If the sea zone from which you are launching the assault or reinforcement is already friendly, you simply offload your units into the territory being reinforced during this phase.”
The transports unloaded before mines were rolled, so there was no cargo aboard to go down with it.
I’m not trying to give you a hard time, I’m just trying to point out that mines are pretty unclear.
Mines are rolled, according to the rulebook, AFTER the movements. The cargo becomes cargo before the dice are rolled, and remains cargo through the mine roll if they don’t unload that turn or if the plan is to unload after clearing the SZ.
Yes. That’s why I said “any units that were loaded after the transport entered the mined sea zone are returned to the territory or territories they were loaded from” and “As the movement phase is over, they can’t move anywhere else.”
Come to think of it, according to the rulebook, transports that unload without combat can still unload their cargo even if struck by a mine:
“If the sea zone from which you are launching the assault or reinforcement is already friendly, you simply offload your units into the territory being reinforced during this phase.”
The transports unloaded before mines were rolled, so there was no cargo aboard to go down with it.
I’m not trying to give you a hard time, I’m just trying to point out that mines are pretty unclear.
This ruling covers that contingency also. The units are considered to have never loaded onto the transport if it strikes a mine before it could load.
I think it would be helpful, then, to put in the FAQ that even though mines are rolled at the end of the move phase, the hits count as taking effect immediately when the ship entered the sea zone.
Page 14 has been updated with the latest questions on transports and mine fields.
You’ve confirmed it is possible to call off an amphibiuos assault if you lose ships to mines, but is it possible to call off a 2nd sea movement if you lose some ships to mines from the first?
Say you have a cruiser escorting a transport and they move 2 spaces, the first containing enemy mines. You roll for mines and the cruiser is sunk, effectively making the transport’s 2nd move (into a hostile SZ) suicide. Can it choose to remain in the first SZ moved into?
This rather supports the suggestion that mines should be rolled for after each SZ moved into, rather than after both moves.
This rather supports the suggestion that mines should be rolled for after each SZ moved into, rather than after both moves.
I think the reasoning for the current rule is to avoid interruption of the phase as well as not allowing players to see the outcome of mines while moving.
You could place the ships over the border they intend to move across for a 2nd move, but allow them to postpone this pending the results of mines in the first. Of couse all ships intending to move must either move or stay put, you can’t decide to split the remainder.
You’ve confirmed it is possible to call off an amphibiuos assault if you lose ships to mines, but is it possible to call off a 2nd sea movement if you lose some ships to mines from the first?
No.
I think the reasoning for the current rule is to avoid interruption of the phase as well as not allowing players to see the outcome of mines while moving.
Correct. It also has the effect of increasing the effectiveness of minefields as a deterrent.
if a shore bombard hits, does that unit still fire back?
Yes.
Wanted some clarification on the mine rules…
If Germany already has ships (including transports) in SZ9 at the beginning of their turn and London is controlled by UK, in which of these two scenarios, if any, will mines be rolled?
1. German transports stay in SZ9, load units from Belgium and land them in London.
2. German transports move to SZ10 to load units and return to SZ9 to land units.
From what I get from the rule book, scenario 1 has no mine rolls and scenario 2 has rolls just for the transports that moved. Correct?
When AH attacks an original Italian territory–Venice for example–and at the end of the round it is contested because AH and Italy both occupy it, does Italy lose the income at their collect income phase?
@VZSTAL:
From what I get from the rule book, scenario 1 has no mine rolls and scenario 2 has rolls just for the transports that moved. Correct?
Yes.
When AH attacks an original Italian territory–Venice for example–and at the end of the round it is contested because AH and Italy both occupy it, does Italy lose the income at their collect income phase?
No, Italy loses the income as soon as Austria-Hungary moves into Venice.
Can you move a Fighter into a contested zone where there is already an enemy fighter and you do not want to fight a land battle?
Must the Fighter have combat with the enemy Fighter that is already present?
Thanks.
@wittmann:
Can you move a Fighter into a contested zone where there is already an enemy fighter and you do not want to fight a land battle?
Yes, as long as you are also moving an infantry in or already have one there.
@wittmann:
Must the Fighter have combat with the enemy Fighter that is already present?
No. Combat is only mandatory when you move into a hostile territory, and fighters only participate in combat during land battles.
Thank you very much Krieghund.
