Right - not legal
Fighters only splash when it is impossible to pick them up during noncombat movement
No I believe you can only let planes splash if there’s no way to save them.
Right - not legal
Fighters only splash when it is impossible to pick them up during noncombat movement
No I believe you can only let planes splash if there’s no way to save them.
And to clarify that is only in the case of the aircraft carriers being destroyed during that combat phase.
Or damaged, or a blocker not being cleared.
@Uncrustable:
I attack a territory with a fighter, the only place for the fighter to land is in an adjacent seazone where an aircraftcarrier must pick it up during noncombat move, the fighter survives the battle and the aircraft carrier has a clear path to pick up said fighter. However i choose not to pick up the fighter and let it splash instead.
Is this a legal move? Or must the aircraftcarrier move to the seazone where the fighter can land on it?
I tend to disagree that this is an illegal move.
Nowhere in the rules does it state that you must pick up aircraft. It only states that each plane must have a place to land before takeoff (no matter how remote). So my fighter did have a place to land, but the rules do not say that you have to land it, and i chose not to.
In 1942 version on gametableonline this is an entirely legal move (or a bug) which i often use as japan to kill unescorted loaded transports or on my sz52 attack i always send 2 fighters and one bomber, if both fighters survive then one is going to die anyhow because i refuse to pick it up.
Id like to know Kreighund’s take on this ?
@Uncrustable:
I tend to disagree that this is an illegal move.
Nowhere in the rules does it state that you must pick up aircraft. It only states that each plane must have a place to land before takeoff (no matter how remote). So my fighter did have a place to land, but the rules do not say that you have to land it, and i chose not to.
In 1942 version on gametableonline this is an entirely legal move (or a bug) which i often use as japan to kill unescorted loaded transports or on my sz52 attack i always send 2 fighters and one bomber, if both fighters survive then one is going to die anyhow because i refuse to pick it up.
Actually it is stated in the rules. See for example Europe 1940-rulebook, page 28, last clause: “…In fact, a carrier must move if it’s able, or remain in place, in order to provide a landing space for an air unit that would not otherwise have one. …”
Same in 1942 btw., see page 28 AC - unit characteristics - first clause, last sentence “…(and in fact, it must do so if it is able)”.
Krieghund’s take on it is that it is illegal. :lol:
Page 28, under aircraft carriers:
“In fact, a carrier must move if it’s able, or remain in place, in order to provide a landing space for an air unit that would not otherwise have one.”
Not sure how else you could interpret this. :-) I guess you found a bug at GTO.
Dang, Panther beat me by 56 seconds!
I feel dirty :(
ALL THESE YEARS! lol
Yes it must be a bug on GTO
:-)
But you could purposely not clear a blocker by attacking and retreating, and thus not have to pick up the fighter
@Uncrustable:
But you could purposely not clear a blocker by attacking and retreating, and thus not have to pick up the fighter
That is a possible way to “break” the rule, however, you still have to risk at least one round of battle and possible losses…
Krieghund’s take on it is that it is illegal. :lol:
Page 28, under aircraft carriers:
“In fact, a carrier must move if it’s able, or remain in place, in order to provide a landing space for an air unit that would not otherwise have one.”
You know what? Â It also says it in another way at the bottom of page 27 under air units.
I’m not so sure about the minimum one round of combat thing.
Say you send a sub to attack 2 battleships, and the battleships would have to be sunk in order for the carrier to pick up the aircraft. Â Your sub can’t possibly sink the 2 battleships in less than 4 rounds.
The rules are clear you can’t use a planned retreat of a carrier to make a safe landing spot. Â However, I can’t tell whether a one round attack legitimizes a fighter attack out of range…
Page 27 of the rulebook - “You can’t send air units on “suicide runs” - deliberately moving them into combat with no place to land afterward. Â If there is any question about whether an attack is a suicide run, then in the Combat Move phase you must declare, prior to rolling any battles, some possible way (however remote the possibility is) for all your attacking air units to land safely that turn. Â This could include a combination of combat moves. Â It could also include noncombat moves by a carrier. Â If it does include a noncombat move by a carrier, then the carrier can’t move in the Combat Move phase…”
Let’s suppose your combat move is to send send fighter(s) over my battleship to attack something vulnerable, and you send one fighter to attack battleship. Â The only way you can pick up the fighters that flew over, is to send a carrier into or through the zone with my battleship. Â There is now “any question about whether an attack is a suicide run”. Â But you say, well I can assume my fighter keeps hitting and your battleship keeps missing. Â I say, fine, you’re right, it’s possible that you could clear my battleship and pick up the fighter.
But then you attack my battleship and miss, and my battleship misses. Â And now you want to retreat. Â But you declared during combat movement that there was a possible way that you could clear the battleship - if your fighter keeps hitting and my battleship keeps missing. Â But now that your fighter missed, you want to retreat? Â Then there’s no possible way that you could clear the zone. Â Also, it’s impossible for your fighter to clear the zone in less than 2 rounds from the beginning. Â Seems like a suicide run.
I’m not sure what the official answer is, but I’m presenting a point of view that seems congruent with the rules. Â My first thought was what SAS said - that a one round hit and run is sufficient… Â But after reading the rules again I’m not so sure…
Krieghund?
Is one round attack all it takes to legitimize the over-flying fighters? Â Or do you have to follow through to the death?
It only takes one round. You have to prove your case for the planes’ landing spots during combat movement, but once the dice start rolling all bets are off. The only requirement after combat starts is that you must still pick up any planes that you still can once it’s over. You have no obligation to maintain those spots during combat.
Thanks!
Amphibious Assault: Can the attacker declare which ships are being designated for clearing a hostile SZ and which ones are for bombardment?
Just because someone does not believe me:
If you share a sea zone with a hostile ship and decide to sink it or retreat from it, any transports engaged in the “battle” of running away or fighting cannot load units that round - they have to retreat (for instance) and on their NEXT round, if not sunk, they can load transports again (assuming they are not thrust into a battle again).
Example:
Germany has 10 transports in SZ 113, America has an IC in Norway. On America’s turn they drop a destroyer in SZ 113 (build one there), Italy either cannot or fails to sink the destroyer on their turn. It is now Germany’s turn, they can retreat the transports, or sink the destroyer, but in either case, they are barred from loading and unloaded infantry, artillery, mech, armor and AA Guns as per historical rules - correct?
@Cmdr:
Just because someone does not believe me:
If you share a sea zone with a hostile ship and decide to sink it or retreat from it, any transports engaged in the “battle” of running away or fighting cannot load units that round - they have to retreat (for instance) and on their NEXT round, if not sunk, they can load transports again (assuming they are not thrust into a battle again).
Example:
Germany has 10 transports in SZ 113, America has an IC in Norway. On America’s turn they drop a destroyer in SZ 113 (build one there), Italy either cannot or fails to sink the destroyer on their turn. It is now Germany’s turn, they can retreat the transports, or sink the destroyer, but in either case, they are barred from loading and unloaded infantry, artillery, mech, armor and AA Guns as per historical rules - correct?
No. You just can’t load in Z113. You can leave the zone during combat move (it’s not retreating) and pick up ground units from a DIFFERENT sea zone, and then unload them. But all of this is combat movement. What you can’t do is a noncombat loading of units with those transports during the German turn. You can do a combat move, but not loading from Z113.
Amphibious Assault: Can the attacker declare which ships are being designated for clearing a hostile SZ and which ones are for bombardment?
NO. ALL must be involved in clearing the SZ. If there is a destroyer or more in a sea zone, you have to clear it and it’s impossible to do bombardment from that zone! If you CHOOSE to engage a submarine or transport and sink them (attempt to sink) then there will be NO bombardment from that zone that turn!
