Global 39 7.1v

[Tigerman77]

Just a small change to make the new Russian NO not too easy.

[ghr2]

On the bright side, kvs and and elite guards are very cheap now.

[ghr2]

But seriously, buffing finland so much really screws russia over since they cannot afford to go in there before the new version(15 ipcs then accumulated rolls after for income), just for an objective that germany would be in a great position to contest every turn.  So now, finland has a lot more to support germany in attacking russia.  I think that russia needs more incentive to invade finland or a big buff in starting units around finland in order to make it practical.

All of this is even more pronounced since germany can pillage 18 additional ipcs if he were to wait a turn for attacking the dutch.

I wonder if the idea is to keep russia paralyzed on the europe side for the entire game so that the axis can easily take and hold leningrad and stalingrad.

[Larrie]

@Der:

I’ve read the two paragraph research section. Where is the research system explained in greater detail?

“Each technology has a specific value that must be reached” How is this value reached? What do you have to roll to get progress? If you don’t get progress do you just lose the 3 IPCs?

You roll a d12 after you pay your 3 IPC’s, each time you do this you add it to your previous roll, therefore you are always progressing.

[General 6 Stars]

Should of just left Finland where it was and let some of these groups play it out and see if it needs any changin. Take away the extra inf and N O .

[billcallaway]

I think Finland is nearly too weak still. We played 3 games in a row where Russia dumped everything into the north until in the war and Finland had to fight over one of it’s territories every single round until Russia was in the war. It’s actually possible now for Russia to get that NO. Germany and Italy both have more problems in 7.1 than 6.1 with the Allies - and that doesn’t even count the extra 70 IPC’s worth of units Russia gets in 7.1 vs. 6.1. It could be how we play but the Axis are having a tough time. It’s still fun though.

My previous post about South America was a mistake. I thought S.A. got more infantry but they don’t.

[Gargantua]

Hmm…

I will playtest this package, but I still don’t see nearly enough for Russia.

Russia starts with HALF of Germanies starting units,  has no income until declared war on, and when war finally is declared, Germany + her minors earn nearly double Russia.

It’s a forgone conclusion everytime.

Stalingrad, and Novgorod upgrades are good, so are $6 german tanks instead of $5.  But I don’t know if I’d call this optically balanced.

Play test will tell!

[billcallaway]

I think I see the problem Garg. Russia does get an income. Every round they add 2d12 for IPC and it’s cumulative. 1st round about 12, 2nd about 24, 3rd about 36, etc. Russia dumps all that into the north and Finland can’t keep up.

If Russia didn’t get income they would be screwed you are correct.

[General 6 Stars]

If your running alot of Russian troops into Finland then your going to be doomed. We played 2 games of 6.1 of course axis victory’s. Now playing a game with 7.0 rules and it looks like a 60 - 40 axis win. I know of another group thats played 7.0 v and both those games were Axis victory’s.
With the new added troops in Finland and Germany taking Helins  first turn and then all troops become axis its just more harder for Russia.
I would of at least left extra Finland troops out and Russia’s N O out to. Then see what happens with the 7.1v rules.

[billcallaway]

@ Garg - it almost sounds like we playing different games. I wonder if we have different rule interpretations. We are all 20 year players so we exploit every hole after we find it in a game.

Played with the official 7.1 and Axis lost. No one even got too lucky or made mistakes. They were always 1 city shy. I think fortresses and lend lease is probably the key more than anything else for the Allies. Russia had 10 super troopers on their fortress in Leningrad and Germany never took until very late in the game. It’s our standard now for UK to build India fortress at first sign of trouble. The upgrade of the India factory is very expensive but we just build max infantry now and fly fighters over every other turn and Japan can’t take. The game comes down to Stalingrad and India so far every time.

[Tigerman77]

@Gargantua:

Hmm…

I will playtest this package, but I still don’t see nearly enough for Russia.

Russia starts with HALF of Germanies starting units,  has no income until declared war on, and when war finally is declared, Germany + her minors earn nearly double Russia.

It’s a forgone conclusion everytime.

Stalingrad, and Novgorod upgrades are good, so are $6 german tanks instead of $5.  But I don’t know if I’d call this optically balanced.

Play test will tell!

Garg….you know at the end of every Russian turn when you roll the 2 d12 for decleration of war that you collect that as income.  This may be why Russia is so weak in your games.

[rohr94]

how do conquered territories, resources, and NO’s play into russia’s rolling for income?  for example when east poland and baltic states are conquered does russia get that income in addition to the rolls?  or if they conquer helsinki and get their NO, do they get the rolls plus the 6 NO and the value of the territories?  in other words when russia conquers territories or gains NO’s do they collect this income but as far as for going to war continue to roll?

[Tigerman77]

You keep up with the income seperate from the rolls. Use the rolls for income but when the rolls are equaequal to or greater than 48 you collect income f rome your normal income. This would be 48 + or - any territories won or lost.

[rohr94]

so in other words, keep track of all territories taken by Russia, and any strategic resources they may possess, but they don’t collect that income until they roll up to 48.  so Russia does NOT collect N.O. bonuses until they have rolled to 48?  or have had war declared on them by an axis power?

[ghr2]

@billcallaway:

@ Garg - it almost sounds like we playing different games. I wonder if we have different rule interpretations. We are all 20 year players so we exploit every hole after we find it in a game.

Played with the official 7.1 and Axis lost. No one even got too lucky or made mistakes. They were always 1 city shy. I think fortresses and lend lease is probably the key more than anything else for the Allies. Russia had 10 super troopers on their fortress in Leningrad and Germany never took until very late in the game. It’s our standard now for UK to build India fortress at first sign of trouble. The upgrade of the India factory is very expensive but we just build max infantry now and fly fighters over every other turn and Japan can’t take. The game comes down to Stalingrad and India so far every time.

That lendlease must of been huge for the allies.  Usually, Germany is able to keep up with russia massing in leningrad and eventually force him off when the southern axis force threatens to swing around to a much weakened moscow.  Does Russia in your games ignore Japan with the Novosibirsk force?  Does russia go heavy into finland?  How does Germany build against him?

[ghr2]

@rohr94:

so in other words, keep track of all territories taken by Russia, and any strategic resources they may possess, but they don’t collect that income until they roll up to 48.  so Russia does NOT collect N.O. bonuses until they have rolled to 48?  or have had war declared on them by an axis power?

I think you still collect the money fro what you conquer, just it does not count to rolls on how close you are to declaring.

You conquer EPL and Baltic for 3, you roll 13, you make 16 ipcs but the roll is still 13.  Next round you roll 8, your income is 24 but your war thing is 21.

[rohr94]

yeah that’s what i was thinking but it doesnt say it explicitly.  and the answer Tigerman gave was a little vague.  it wouldn’t make sense to conquer things if you didnt make any money for them, other than to deny german them.  also territories like iran and iraq are useless if you dont get the money until you roll to war.

[koba]

We use Soviet gains toward their income but they are kept separate from the rolls in terms of declaration of war.

[billcallaway]

@ghr2

Eventually Russia does lose Leningrad. However, often Russia can take Leningrad back. I’ve found that Russia is really only defending 2 Victory Cities at a time. One is always Leningrad, and the other is Moscow or Stalingrad. Russia keeps 15 infantry in the east but basically lets Japan do what they want. The implied threat of 10 infantry in the Eastern fortress is actually worse than actual threat itself. Russia now keeps the eastern artillery in the east but moves the tanks to the west 1st turn.

Russia always goes heavy into Finland. Half the casualties with Germany and Russia in our games is over Finland/Leningrad. Now that Russia has their NO in Finland it will probably draw the UK into Finland now instead of Europe, but good or bad rolls can change strategy fast. Germany has a good bonus in Norway and now that Russia does too it makes it even more important. It’s actually pretty historical too so it’s more fun. You need Leningrad to get Spain so Germany basically doesn’t have a choice. Stalingrad is too far away. Germany sends 50% north and 25% center and 25% south.

[ghr2]

@billcallaway:

@ghr2

Eventually Russia does lose Leningrad. However, often Russia can take Leningrad back. I’ve found that Russia is really only defending 2 Victory Cities at a time. One is always Leningrad, and the other is Moscow or Stalingrad. Russia keeps 15 infantry in the east but basically lets Japan do what they want. The implied threat of 10 infantry in the Eastern fortress is actually worse than actual threat itself. Russia now keeps the eastern artillery in the east but moves the tanks to the west 1st turn.

Russia always goes heavy into Finland. Half the casualties with Germany and Russia in our games is over Finland/Leningrad. Now that Russia has their NO in Finland it will probably draw the UK into Finland now instead of Europe, but good or bad rolls can change strategy fast. Germany has a good bonus in Norway and now that Russia does too it makes it even more important. It’s actually pretty historical too so it’s more fun. You need Leningrad to get Spain so Germany basically doesn’t have a choice. Stalingrad is too far away. Germany sends 50% north and 25% center and 25% south.

In the games I have played, usually russia ends up stacking leningrad and trying for baltic states if possible. Russia sends the novgorod slow east and uses it to pressure japan and support china (does not declare right away).  The fast units get in position to take persia and attempt to hit Iraq.  Russia also leaves some units in the south to deal with the minor axis armies.  Germany ends up building either mass tanks to ram into baltic and pskov to kick russia out, or(more recently), gets 3-5 transports and dumps tanks n such into finland which ends up stacking vipuri and baltic/pskov.  So now, germany can transport units, attack from finland/vipuri, and attack through pskov(italian bombers kill block).  With the Special german east front ability to choose a battle to kick ass in, russia is forced to back out of leningrad in both scenarios.  On top of all of this, russia has a large axis force in the south to deal with (20-25 inf + artmech & tank).  Russia is forced to pull back in the north and south.  Germany then walks into leningrad and super stacks in westukraine.  He can then walk into stalingrad since russia does not have nearly enough punch to deal with the extreme amount of infantry on the defense and the many tanks.  When germany can lose it’s entire airforce in an attempt to kill the western allied transport fleet, and still be strong, you know they game is screwed up.

Even if russia sent more up north, I don’t see how things could of changed much.  Cairo & Calcutta both fell due to UK being unable to keep up with Japan and Italy (italy alone makes more than UK once he clears the med and get get 4-5 transports of units every 1-2 turns into africa + mass planes.  FEC never made more than 23 a turn, and went down fast after turn 2 & 3.).  Japan lost half of his fleet on UK round 2, but was still able to dominate india and south east asia(air scrambling from carriers to defend adjacent seazones and land territories is very strong here).  The US managed to get some fleets going, but it can’t economically afford to make a critical difference in either theater unless it ignores one completely.  The US and UK were able to get 20-30 ground & 6-8 UK air into france but germany was able to send enough to paris to deter the allies from reclaiming it. And now, since Italy has Cairo, he can can-open rheims which will make things a lot more difficult.

The axis had 13 vcs in their sight (Rome, Berlin, Paris, Warsaw, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Cairo, Calcutta, Singapore, Manilla, HK, Shanghai, Tokyo).

I really do think that the Axis are still too strong.  It does not seem the allies could of done anything different that would of changed much.  Some minor errors, sure, but nothing big.  My belief is that the best shot the allies have is if they focus on killing 1 side first, before dealing with the other.  Or, the US just lendleases all game and their is a change to the lend-lease rules so that the allies can at least slightly improve their odds at not losing all of it.