@WILD:
I agree with you.
It does seem that the Germans purposely delay the strike on Poland, because they want to use the one time double move on both Poland and France at the same time (messes up the time line IMO). I can see the problem at the French border as well, and circumventing through Switzerland just seems wrong.
It’s always a risk, if Germany wants to take out both France and Poland in a single turn (6 month time frame), they stretch themselves on both fronts to the point where victory can not be completely assured. But if Germany takes out Poland first without managing to secure France on the same turn, then a U.K who focuses on Army buildup could theoretically throw everything they have into France on its subsequent turn, making it just as hard as the initial German two front attack.
If Germany takes out France first, Poland becomes controlled by the U.K, they can pull everything into Warsaw with its +1 bonus, fly in air support, build three units there, and that is only T1 (after DOW), the German Forces in France would be out of position to attack until T3(DOW). Of course Germany may have built a spare force by then to attack, but it might not be enough.
I think Germany must attack on both fronts on its first wartime move, it shouldn’t be hard, but against a skillful Allies player, it could lose you the war if played wrong.
@WILD:
Can’t the Germans defeat the Polish w/o using the double move though?
Yep I think so, Warsaw is only two territories away, into it with a few Tanks, Mechs and a couple Cavalry to absorb hits on the first territory would work fine.
If I remember the rules correctly, those units can use the second phase of the lightning war to rail some units to the West Front, to participate in a T2W (Turn 2 Wartime) attack into France if the German forces there where just too weak to do the job.
The issue there that I found, is that the railways go from West Germany to Netherlands to Belgium, there are no railways between West Germany to Belgium, so Germany has to take out Netherlands to get the Polish forces all the way to Belgium. I wanted to avoid this so that the Far East Command couldn’t get the DEI (I really exploited all that I could in my game, several house rules came into play after that).
So that would have left my German Forces faced off against everything the French had in Picardy, and it was too much of a risk to lose my precious tanks to them. Hence I exploited the Switzerland plan.
@WILD:
Maybe the Germans should be able to buy mech and medium tanks a turn earlier?
Mmm, I just saved my IPP’s for a couple pre-war turns, and then when I was able to purchase my Mech and M-Arm I maxed out my factories producing them for one round, and then in the last pre-war round I built a few more in West Germany to be ready for the Jump Off.
@WILD:
Haven’t played enough to come up with a real solution, but maybe expanding the double move?
It seems to me that the Germans used a blitzing technique more then just one time lol. Maybe allow for another double move or “precursor double move” to be used only on Poland. That way you could take down Poland in say beginning 39, then rail those units to the Western front second half of 39. Then you’re ready to hit the French in 1940.
Perhaps they could, but I found that the French get strong very quickly.
I can’t remember what the rules say about it, but was it that the Lightning War allowed for either a Combat move or a Strategic move but not both? As in, the German East Force takes out Poland in phase one, then rails to the west in phase two. The alternative is the German East Force takes out Poland, rails, and joins for a phase two assault on France.
I think it was the former.
Either way I like it where its at, it presents a nice challenge and a risk, if the dice are against Germany in its initial French assaults, the war could very well be over before it ever began.
@WILD:
I also think that the Swiss should get a blockhouse w/o question to bolster their defense. I also think that the Germans maybe should get an economic incentive for not attacking the Swiss. Say 1 IPCs every round that the Swiss stay neutral starting in 1939, call it a trading partner NO or something.
That’s actually a fantastic idea, make it not worth the costs of invading. Sort of like the situation with Sweden.
There is a tiny bit of historical evidence for economic trading.
@Wikipedia:
Financial relationships with Nazi Germany
Switzerland’s trade was blockaded by both the Allies and by the Axis. Each side openly exerted pressure on Switzerland not to trade with the other. Economic cooperation and extension of credit to the Third Reich varied according to the perceived likelihood of invasion, and the availability of other trading partners. Concessions reached their zenith after a crucial rail link through Vichy France was severed in 1942, leaving Switzerland completely surrounded by the Axis. Switzerland relied on trade for half of its food and essentially all of its fuel, but controlled vital trans-alpine rail tunnels between Germany and Italy. Switzerland’s most important exports during the war were precision machine tools, watches, jewel bearings (used in bomb sights), electricity, and dairy products. Until 1936, the Swiss franc was the only remaining major freely convertible currency in the world,[31] and both the Allies and the Germans sold large amounts of gold to the Swiss National Bank. Between 1940 and 1945, the German Reichsbank sold 1.3 billion francs worth of gold to Swiss Banks in exchange for Swiss francs and other foreign currency, which were used to buy strategically important raw materials like tungsten and oil from neutral countries.[26] Hundreds of millions of francs worth of this gold was monetary gold plundered from the central banks of occupied countries. A total of 581,000 francs’ worth of “Melmer” gold taken from Holocaust victims in eastern Europe was sold to Swiss banks.[26] In total, trade between Germany and Switzerland contributed about 0.5% to the German war effort and did not significantly lengthen the war.
Unfortunately not quite enough evidence I think. Perhaps the bonus would only come into play if the whole of Switzerland is surrounded by Axis and Vichy.
At the very least, like you say, the Swiss should have a bunker. How do you employ bunker systems? What bonuses do they give?
@WILD:
I’m hoping that the 1939 set-up will address these issues. I would imagine that the Germans will be set to squash the Poles on the first (maybe second) turn, then shift focus to France a couple turns later.
Yeah that would be great! Its better if the Company makes the rules rather then House rules patching things up, it makes it easier to play with random people.
I personally will still want to play with the 1936 set up, I really like the versatility and the ability to fight out the Sino-Japanese War, sometimes it gets botched up China just keeps getting stronger and Japan has to finally give up taking ground. Or the Spanish Civil War, sometimes the players lend-lease everything into it to win it, other times it stagnates, its a fantastic diversion of resources and the Allied player really takes a secret glee whenever the Comintern and the Axis players lose units in those mountains.
Also, I should state that in my circle of players, we do have a few major house rules that change the game, so the issues we have may not be the same for other players.
The biggest one being the Air-force, we didn’t like how the Air-force was always seemed like the most powerful unit in the game, so we majorly tweaked it. Air-force can only roll once per battle, fighters can only hit aircraft in a pre-battle dogfight, and the Air-force generally has become cheaper. Aircraft can also scramble to adjacent territories. We found this works really well. The Air War is vicious and bloody, Boots and Tanks matter more, and it allows more of historical feel to the game. Its great. :-)
Anyways! Your suggestion for Switzerland was awesome, I’m going to look into it further, it still might not be enough to stop a Schlieffen via Switzerland, that Nation is worth at least 1 IPP, and it presents Germany with a third option of attack. I think it needs something a little stronger. Like…the Swiss where talking about avalanches and rock slides and locking up the whole nation, perhaps any forces in Switzerland get stuck there for an additional turn?
At the very least, when moving out of mountains moves should be reduced to one. The current rule is that when crossing into mountains or across a mountain border, move must end. Perhaps by extending this rule so that units must end their turn AFTER leaving a mountain area would prevent an attack on Paris. On thinking about this, it seems so obvious that perhaps its implied in the rules without stating it.
