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[MX2000]

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[Flashman]

I always preferred this to the official blitz rule.

The downside is of course that expensive tanks can be left as sitting ducks, but it does make players think about defence in depth. If can only make “breakthrough” attacks if the enemy is wiped out in the first combat round, it does discourage a player holding a front line with only a skeleton force.

[Moose11]

The blitz, or mechanized unit phase, can be found in Struggle for Europe and Asia.  The rules work very well.  The rules can be downloaded from the forum off of this website:

http://www.ww2wargame.com

[knp7765]

So with this breakthrough rule, do all the attacking units get to advance or only the tanks and mechs?
For example: Say Germany has a large force in Poland; 10 infantry, 4 artillery, 2 mechs and 3 tanks. They attack Baltic States and Russia only has 3 infantry there. Germany also brought along 2 fighters, 2 Stukas and 2 Bombers. So the German force easily wipes out the 3 Russian infantry in the first combat round.
So, can the entire force move on to attack Leningrad? Or just the tanks and mechs? What about the airplanes?

[knp7765]

Okay, I get it. You would have to take into account the aircraft movement range too. Like in my above example, any fighters and tactical bombers would have to start out in Poland. Once they defeat the Russians in Baltic States, they could move on to Leningrad and still fly back to land in Poland. If they started in Germany, Baltic States would be 2 moves, Leningrad would be 3 moves.
Unless with this breakthrough rule you allow planes to land in newly captured territory from the first battle (Baltic States). If not, then this could sort of restrict the usefulness of fighters and tactical bombers due to their limited range. You would have to keep them right up on the front line territories if you wanted to use them in the secondary attacks.
I can see the pros and cons of this idea. Pros would be much quicker advance in battles. Cons would be leaving your pricy tanks exposed with no infantry buffer.
Theoretically, using this rule Germany could capture Moscow in 2 rounds:
Round 1 = First combat Poland to Baltic States, Second combat Baltic States to Belorus.
Round 2 = First combat Belorus to Smolensk, Second combat Smolensk to MOSCOW.
Of course, the Russian player would have to be playing like some sort of mentally challenged individual leaving not only his capital with so little in it that whatever tanks and mechs were left by that time would be able to take the capital but apparently not much to guard the territories leading up to the capital.
Either that or the Germans would have to build up a really large stack of tanks and mechs, with possibly bombers, to achieve this.

[Moose11]

You would need a map with many more spaces to make the blitzing rules manageable.  Once the mechanized units break through enemy lines, it is a relatively simple matter of encirling the rest and destroying them.  In games like A&A Global 1939, the Germans, once they invade Russia, have a huge mech army.  In my opinion, this would destabilize the game.

If you were to play with these rules, each nation had different mechanized capabilities.  The Americans and Commonwealth were very adept at piggybacking infantry on their mech units.  The Germans were not.  In the early war, the Russians were not either.

[Jennifer]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought it was interesting.

My mind immediately jumped to: if you attack and defeat all defenders in one round and they defenders did not score any hits, then the attacker can proceed to attack the next territory in line regardless of movement points left.

The idea, as I thought of it, would be to blow through pickets and attack territories of value, maybe get defenders to actually defend territory?

Might not work, just what immediately jumped to mind.

[knp7765]

@Cmdr:

When I saw the title of this thread I thought it was interesting.

My mind immediately jumped to: if you attack and defeat all defenders in one round and they defenders did not score any hits, then the attacker can proceed to attack the next territory in line regardless of movement points left.

The idea, as I thought of it, would be to blow through pickets and attack territories of value, maybe get defenders to actually defend territory?

Might not work, just what immediately jumped to mind.

I don’t think you could ever use it in this case, unless there is only 1 or maybe 2 infantry defending. No matter how huge an army you have built up, if the defender puts at least 3 infantry to guard, they are likely to get at least 1 hit. So you could have 50 infantry, 30 artillery, 30 mechs and 20 tanks to roll over any defense but because of that single defending infantry hit, your whole monster army is stalled.

[Jennifer]

Yes, but that’s the idea that popped into mind.  It only works if there is a complete rout of the enemy.

Would work great in mainland Asia, Europe and Africa since you generally see 1 infantry pickets and those generally miss on defense.

As I said, it was just what popped into mind.

[Flashman]

I would tend to exclude aircraft from breakthroughs. While tanks and mech inf are exploiting gaps in the enemy lines as opportunity develops, aircraft have to plan their movements in advance.
I also tend to think of planes being restricted to an initial attack because of limits on fuel and armaments; they would have to return to base to refuel and reload making it impractical. The armour has to go it alone and hope to be reinforced before the enemy counter attacks them, making mech units rather vulnerable.
Of couse order of play could give one side a big advantage e.g. German tanks breakthrough and can then be reinforced by Italian infantry before Russia gets to attack the vulnerable panzers. This is one reason I prefer the 4 power block breakdown (Western Allies, Axis, USSR, Japan; with all nations within each block played simultaneously).

Another idea I’ve used on a similar theme regarding aircraft is in big naval battles, where fighters always have to spend every other (or 3rd?) combat round refueling on their carriers before they can attack again. Ref: Midway.

[Jennifer]

I kind of like that refueling and rearming rules.

I’d probably say every other round. That would account for flying time and being grounded time.  Maybe only on attack (since on defense there’s no flying time to and from.)

[knp7765]

Would it be possible to plan your aircraft movement to anticipate an armor breakthrough? For example, let’s use Germany attacking Russia from Poland into the Baltic States and Belorus.
Germany attacks the Baltic States with a large army with plenty of tanks and mechs. Baltic States is only defended by 2 lonely infantry which are crushed with no defensive hits. So, the tanks and mechs want to move on to Belorus.
A bomber stationed in Germany could move 3 spaces to Belorus then 3 spaces back to land in Germany. So, could you in your combat move send your German bomber to Belorus in anticipation of a breakthrough in the Baltic States?
I think that would be okay on the following condition: if there is NO breakthrough, like if you used Commander Jennifer’s idea and the Russian infantry got defensive hits thus halting the advance of the armor/mechs, then that bomber would have to fight at least the first combat round with whatever forces are in Belorus before it could retreat back to Germany.
However, if there was a breakthrough, then the bomber would simply be supporting the armor units.
That way, you could use planes for a breakthrough battle, but it could be risky.
The main point would be that the combat between the bomber and the Belorus forces be allowed to wait on the result of the Baltic States battle.

[Jennifer]

I could see contingencies for air attacks like that.  Maybe if there is no breakthrough only defending aircraft, AA Guns and armor could still take a shot at the retreating bombers (or other aircraft?)  The idea is they get to their target on time and on schedule but get called off before starting their bombing run, but not before the enemy can start firing on them. (so they don’t get low enough to the ground for General Patton to jump out on a jeep and shoot them down with a handgun?)  Just to minimize the risk a bit. (Great scene from the movie btw!)

Maybe allow players to layer their aircraft attacks as well, so: these three fighters attack first, then the fighter, tactical and strategic hit the next round - then it alternates?

[ossel]

I’ve always been frustrated by the fact that you can’t exploit a breakthrough in A&A, not to mention the fact that defender morale is never taken into account (I mean, do you think every battle would be fought to the last man?). On the second point, I sometimes implement a rule that says if half the defending force is wiped out in one combat phase, the rest of the defending force automatically retreats.

A blitz/breakthrough rule would be helpful in this scenario, to allow the attacker to follow up when the enemy retreats.

[Flashman]

Maybe it could work the other way round - the bomber battle is allowed to be fought first - possibly clearing the way for an “after-blitz” if all defenders are eliminated?

[crusaderiv]

Ossel…I thought the same.
A couple of year ago, I tried to make a rule about that.
A rule about prisoner of war, defender retreat and reddition but my friends prefer to fight 'till the end!!
Even if it’s not realist…

[Jennifer]

Defender retreat if half wiped in one round would be great - for the defender!

[ossel]

@Cmdr:

Defender retreat if half wiped in one round would be great - for the defender!

Hence, why soldiers retreat in real battles - they’re trying to save their asses.

But, like I said, to implement a rule like this, it’s absolutely essential to have some sort of follow-up or breakthrough rule, to allow the attacker to proceed with attacking if they want to. If something like this was added, where the attacker could continue his attack into the next territory, this would be a great disadvantage to the defender, because they could potentially lose more than one territory per turn.

[toblerone77]

What about if the defender retreats, the attacking force may attack again as if it had not moved in the combat phase?

[General 6 Stars]

If the defender retreats, only attacking pieces ( mechs, tanks, paratroopers, planes ) from another territory can breakthrough that first attacking territory and then into where the defenders retreated to. So if you think your going to lose the battle as a defender, you retreat and force the better attacking pieces to attack yours and you can kill his better pieces as the defender.