Global 2nd edition Q+A ( AAG40.2)


  • 2 Questions: Convoy Disruption and UK National Objective

    1.) Conduct Convoy Disruption (CCD):
    is CCD an option or is it a must do, if warships are present?
    Take, for example, Japan has warships in sea zone 54, but wants to conquer “New South Wales” next round, and I do not want to use convoy disruption, to capture all the Anzac IPCs.
    Can I decide not to use the convoy disruption in this case when Anzac collects his income, in Triple A there is no option for this?

    2.) About UK-Pacific NO:
    5 PUs if UK Pacific controls both Kwangtung and Malaya, and is at war with Japan.
    Need I also to control all the original UK Pacific territories to collect this NO?


  • @Babubaer:

    1.) Conduct Convoy Disruption (CCD):
    is CCD an option or is it a must do, if warships are present?
    Take, for example, Japan has warships in sea zone 54, but wants to conquer “New South Wales” next round, and I do not want to use convoy disruption, to capture all the Anzac IPCs.
    Can I decide not to use the convoy disruption in this case when Anzac collects his income, in Triple A there is no option for this?

    Hi Babubaer,

    Convoy Disruption occurs in the Collect Income Phase of the nation that is affected. In your case in the Collect Income Phase of ANZAC.
    So if there are Japanese warships in SZ 54 during ANZAC’s Collect Income Phase CCD occurs automatically.
    It has nothing to do with Japanese moves during Japanese move phases.
    HTH :-)


  • @Babubaer:

    2.) About UK-Pacific NO:
    5 PUs if UK Pacific controls both Kwangtung and Malaya, and is at war with Japan.
    Need I also to control all the original UK Pacific territories to collect this NO?

    No. The NO is only about Kwangtung and Malaya. Of course Calcutta must be in UK’s hands.


  • Hi P@nther  :-)

    first, thxs for your fast answers:

    Convoy Disruption occurs in the Collect Income Phase of the nation that is affected. In your case in the Collect Income Phase of ANZAC.

    ok that is clear so far.

    So if there are Japanese warships in SZ 54 during ANZAC’s Collect Income Phase CCD occurs automatically.
    It has nothing to do with Japanese moves during Japanese move phases.
    HTH :-)

    Sorry but i need to ask again, why should i destroy IPC´s when i can capture them on my next turn? I cant find nothing in the rules that that happens automaticly but i can as well nothing find in the rules that it is an Option! I guess you are right P@nther but i would be happy to have a clarification from Krieghund or gamerman.


  • @Babubaer:

    Sorry but i need to ask again, why should i destroy IPC’s when i can capture them on my next turn? I cant find nothing in the rules that that happens automaticly but i can always nothing find in the rules that it is an Option! …

    Because it is not on Japan to decide about anything when it comes to ANZAC’s Collect Income Phase.
    If you don’t want that to happen as Japan just don’t leave warships in that Convoy Raid zone. You can attack Sydney starting from other seazones without provoking Convoy Raiding in ANZAC’s Collect Income Phase before.
    Japan decides to move when it is up to Japan’s decisions: In Japan’s CM or NCM phase. If Japan decides to move into SZ 54 it decides to disrupt convoys in ANZAC’s Collect Income Phase.


  • hi P@nther,  8-)

    your detailed comments have convinced me absolutly!!  :-D :-D

    Thxs for your help, maybe you are also such a great rule “Guru” like Krieghund and Gamerman. Have a nice day!

  • Customizer

    just an FYI, I do not monitor this thread, or any other threads

    so if you have a bug report for triplea, please follow the proper procedure of actually making a bug report:
    http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=44492&atid=439737

    This link is also found within the triplea game, by clicking the “HELP” menu, then clicking “Bug Report”

    Also, to Gamerman, I have not brushed off anything.  All bug reports that are made through proper channels (ie: an actual bug report using above link) are added to a PERMANENT list of bugs for the game engine.  They are never closed or brushed off until fixed. 
    I then make a value judgement on which to prioritize and where to spend my time, including such factors as how much it affects the game, if there is a workaround (such as the user simply knowing what order to pick their battles in, etc) or whether triplea specifically forces the ‘bug’ to occur, how hard it is to fix the bug (ie: how many hours to fix, how many hours to test, is there a possibility of fixing this bug accidentally creating a new bug elsewhere because this part of the engine is very complex or not, am I waiting to redo this part of the engine and do not want to touch it until it is properly abstracted/refactored/recoded/redone, etc).  Please remember that I am basically putting in hundreds/thousands of hours for free, and that my time is rather valuable in this sense.


  • Babu -

    From page 24 of the 2nd edition Europe manual, under “conduct convoy disruptions”:

    “A review of the map, specifically looking for such situations, is the responsibility of all the players… …All players should be on the lookout for such convoy attack situations and point them out.”

    This means that even if your opponent does not see that you need to roll for convoy damage, you are supposed to be honest (not sneaky) and conduct the damage rolls, because ALL players are supposed to be on the lookout for convoy attack situations AND point them out.  (If you still see any wiggle room in the language of this rule, I can assure you that Krieghund HAS weighed in on the question and answered definitively that convoy raiding die rolls and damage are mandatory)

    As Panther said, the only way to be sure to avoid disrupting the enemy’s income (because you are planning to take their capital next turn) is to keep your ships away from their convoy sea zones.

    Or you can just make sure you roll 4’s, 5’s, and 6’s  :wink:


  • As always, the help in this forum is awesome!!

    @ Gamerman
    I will do my best to roll 4’s, 5’s and 6’s    :wink:

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    The issue has been raised:

    Are there any official rules stipulating that China may not have Armor, Fighter, Tactical Bomber or Strategic Bomber units bid for it.

    I believe, per page 10:

    China may only purchase infantry.

    There exists an American plane representing volunteers that, for the purpose of movement and combat, is considered part of the Chinese army.

    So there is a precedent that says, American units can volunteer for the Chinese army, so long as they do so prior to the start of the game, and that, said units, are considered part of the Chinese army for the purpose of movement and combat.

    ATM, my league ruling is that these units may exist, and TripleA be d@mned for not allowing you to put them on the board.  Unless someone can explicitly show me where they cannot in the rules, as printed by WOTC.  (I knew these dang house rules for bidding would bite me in the butt one day, I just didn’t think it was going to take from Classic until now to do so! lol.)

    I’m looking for rules that ban it, btw.  Something like the rule, on page 10 of the Pacific SE book, that says, to the effect “China may not have an industrial complex” but it saying something like “China may not have armor, tactical bombers, strategic bombers, etc under any circumstances.”


  • I think it’s within your authority to allow all air and ground units for Chinese bid in the league, Jenn.
    You’re right - there is no statement in the rule book prohibiting this.  Or, to answer your question directly - no, there are no official rules stipulating that China may not have armor, fighter, tactical bomber, strategic bomber, or mechanized infantry.

    “At the beginning of the game, China has a U.S. fighter unit located on the map.  This represents the …. Flying Tigers.  This fighter is considered part of the Chinese forces for purposes of movement and combat…”

    As you point out, bidding is an “extra rule” already (is not mentioned in the rule book), so allowing Chinese units in the bid that would normally not be possible, is merely an extension/interpretation of the already extraneous bidding procedure.
    In other words, since bidding adds some units to the setup, and you control the bidding rules, it is logical that you can authorize Chinese bombers and tacs (or a 2nd flying tiger unit - twin tigers), which follow the same restrictions as the flying tigers (can’t fly away from Chinese territories), or mechanized infantry or armor.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Those were my thoughts on it.

    Of course, normal Chinese movement restrictions would apply.  So even a strategic bomber wouldn’t be able to fly into the Sea of Japan to attack, but a second fighter surely would be a great boon to China.

    Then there are the off the wall bids where you say “Allies for 18 IPC” and the guy goes “okay” and you say “woot, I want 3 tanks in China, 1 here, 2 there” and he goes “oh crud, well, Japan’s boned” or whatever. lol.

  • Official Q&A

    It is my understanding that bids are for IPCs, and that those IPCs are used to purchase additional starting units.  The rules stipulate that China may purchase only infantry, unless the Burma Road is open, in which case it may also purchase artillery.  It seems pretty clear to me.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Krieghund:

    It is my understanding that bids are for IPCs, and that those IPCs are used to purchase additional starting units.  The rules stipulate that China may purchase only infantry, unless the Burma Road is open, in which case it may also purchase artillery.  It seems pretty clear to me.

    I can see your rationale, I just don’t agree with it.

    The reason is this:  I see bid units equivalent to the Flying Tiger’s unit.  It’s something China may not purchase during normal game play, but because it exists on the board prior to Germany’s diplomacy/purchase units phase, it is grandfathered in.

    I am not saying my reasoning is correct, I’m willing to be talked out of it, I just cannot see a rule or reason to ban such units from the bidding process, at least in so far as the 13-G40 SE League goes.  The closest I can imagine is the difficulty of allowing said units while within the arbitrary confines of TripleA, but those could be fixed readily enough I would assume.


  • @Cmdr:

    The closest I can imagine is the difficulty of allowing said units while within the arbitrary confines of TripleA, but those could be fixed readily enough I would assume.

    Like I said in the other thread, it is doable in Triple A.  You would add an allied unit and use edit mode to move it.  In battle, you would need to roll the battle involving the bid unit(s) outside of Triple A and then just edit the results.

    It is not much unlike other gymnastics that are often necessary to play a game in Triple A.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @Gamerman01:

    @Cmdr:

    The closest I can imagine is the difficulty of allowing said units while within the arbitrary confines of TripleA, but those could be fixed readily enough I would assume.

    Like I said in the other thread, it is doable in Triple A.  You would add an allied unit and use edit mode to move it.  In battle, you would need to roll the battle involving the bid unit(s) outside of Triple A and then just edit the results.

    It is not much unlike other gymnastics that are often necessary to play a game in Triple A.

    yea, I said difficulty, not impossibility. lol.

    Still, it is an interesting wrinkle, be fun to both use and debate and see what happens to some of these cookie cutter axis strategies.  Maybe there can be thought of a bid that helps China to the point that the bids get closer to the -6 to 6 range, which, IMNSHO would be great since it would declare the game a lot more balanced.  12-18 IPC bids, in my mind, clearly declare that the game is not balanced, but that could just be me, and my philosophy that a balanced game is won where the average bid is 0.

  • '20 '16 '15 '14

    Sometimes you guys really floor me….

    I’m sorry, but bidding any unit that a country is not entitled to use per the rulebook (and, per the pieces that come with the game?!) is contrary to the entire spirit of the game.  China is entitled to bid infantry, artillery (because at the beginning of the game the Burma road is open, otherwise not even that), and that’s it.  Period.  A bid is merely an extension of the forces of a country, and in this game, China is only entitled to infantry, artillery, and the Flying Tigers unit.

    And, to change this midstream during league is quite a change, isn’t it?  Have you asked any of the top players what they would think of the rules change?

    To blow off what Krieg said is also a bit weird – after all, he is also speaking for the “spirit” of the rules.

    To give China other units – well, when you can show me an actual Chinese strat bomber out of your box, I’ll reconsider.  Otherwise, please keep the rules as they are for league.  It’s hard enough for us new people to keep up with the actual rules, let alone the whimsical ones… ;)


  • Dizz, your whole argument falls apart right there

    There isn’t a Chinese fighter in the box.

    I AM one of the top players in the league with a record of 14-1, thank you very much

    I already said, it’s not even an optimal move to bid anything other than infantry, artillery, or another fighter, so why are you so excited?

    If your opponent actually bids a Chinese bomber, you can just laugh and be glad he didn’t put 4 infantry in Yunnan, which would be MUCH more problematic  :roll:

  • '20 '16 '15 '14

    Why am I excited?  Because the rules are fine as they are.  The only bidding rule that should be changed is one unit per territory max.  Or maybe that is the rule.  I’m not even sure of that.

    To bid any unit to a country that they are not entitled to changes the entire game mechanics, that’s why.  Let’s let trannies hit at a 1 while we’re at it….

  • '20 '16 '15 '14

    And, no offense, but I was thinking of asking all of the top tier – I wasn’t inferring you weren’t one of them.  ;)

Suggested Topics

  • 2
  • 30
  • 10
  • 2
  • 7
  • 20
  • 1
  • 17
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

47

Online

17.4k

Users

39.9k

Topics

1.7m

Posts