If you need any rule clarifications feel free to ask us!
Larry's new tank rules for Global 1940 Alpha Beta
-
I originally thought this was a cool rule because I like special abilities for units, but it definitely sounds like it is good this one got shut down.
-
Why would you buy them if they defend at a 2. I am keeping 3attack 3 defense. Listen to the soldiers who tried to attack a well positioned tiger. I think they defended at a 5.
-
I’m happy he backed away from this one. The armour is fine the way it is. If anything, the mech should be improved.
-
right mech should be a 2-2-2-4 and not boost anything or be boosted by anything and have blitz capability w/o tanks.
-
@Imperious:
right mech should be a 2-2-2-4 and not boost anything or be boosted by anything and have blitz capability w/o tanks.
Agree
-
2 move 3 attk 3 def 5 cost
-
@Imperious:
right mech should be a 2-2-2-4 and not boost anything or be boosted by anything and have blitz capability w/o tanks.
I do hope this is sarcasm…
You pay 1 extra IPC for an Infantry on wheels that move with the speed of a tank. Infantry cost 3. Tanks are 6. By your logic, you’re basing this on every 2 IPC roughly equalling 1 attack and 1 defense. So 4 IPC should be 2 attack and 2 defense? Sorry, but, not a very good way to look at it. Take the fighter for example, it’s a 3 attack and 4 defense unit. The bomber is a 4 attack and 1 defense unit… but costs more than the fighter. It’s extra because of the move of the unit (and bombard things yes).
If you really want to arm your mech infantry, make use of the artillery (its why we have this unit). :|
Mobility wins wars good sir, just my 2 cents.
-
@Imperious:
right mech should be a 2-2-2-4 and not boost anything or be boosted by anything and have blitz capability w/o tanks.
I definitely agree with this. Especially on the blitzing. I’ve always thought that mech inf should be able to blitz by themselves.
-
@Imperious:
right mech should be a 2-2-2-4 and not boost anything or be boosted by anything and have blitz capability w/o tanks.
I definitely agree with this. Especially on the blitzing. I’ve always thought that mech inf should be able to blitz by themselves.
If mechs got that boost, I would want my Infantry 2-2-1-3. Get rid of artillery all together.
-
If mechs are 2-2-2-4 and can blitz alone there will be 0 reason to buy tanks
Sure they will be because tanks are 3-3 units and infantry defend at 2 so to overcome the deficit you need a greater value and fodder to back up the attack.
Tanks are the best hit and run unit available. If you want to send a bunch of two’s attacking two’s you will likely be trading a 4 for a 3, but if you bring tanks, artillery, and infantry as well as mech you can hit and run while weakening the defender each turn till he falls.
If anything the game teaches that you must have a combined arms component to win battles. Stacks of just one type of unit will cost a player more, except as pure defense per IPC spent which still makes infantry King.
-
This is so ridiculous… A tank is also a formidale defense weapon and this rule doesn’t bring balance it brings ridiculousness to the game.
-
I think Mech Inf are too powerful at 2-2-2-4 with independant Blitz.
I think should instead be 1-2-2-4 with independant Blitz.
-
I think Mech Inf are too powerful at 2-2-2-4 with independant Blitz.
I think should instead be 1-2-2-4 with independant Blitz.
Well, perhaps not too powerful, but rather too cheap for what they do then. Why buy a tank then? So although I think that a 2 attack value is probably more in line with the actual capabilities of motorized infantry (speed is essential in attacks!), they would be too cheap. 5 on the other hand would be too expensive and for just one more point it would then really be an obviously better choice to buy a tank instead.
Therefore I agree with 1-2-2-4 with independant Blitz (I hardly buy mech infantry, because for the Blitzing capability I buy tanks and in most other respects artillery is the better choice for the same point cost). Giving them an idependant Blitz capability might actually make me invest more heavily in mech. rather than in artillery.
-
remember to consider the mech a 2-2-2-4 unit with no boost from artillery.
-
Tanks defending at 2 and still costing 6 is pretty bad, but now we have to be prepared to fight off the rule ‘change’ of fighters attacking at 3 unless paired with an Infantry as spotter to increase them to 4!
woo-hoo! just being facetious, couldn’t resist! :roll: :-D :-o -
No this:
1. They attack at 2, artillery does not boost them +1 making it a 3.
2. They can blitz without a tank.So what you got is a artillery unit in ( in terms of stats) but moving 2 spaces and not boosting anything. (Net change: trading +1 attack boost for movement +1 )
-
With 2-2-2-4 Mechs that can blitz by themselves;
When buying a tank, you get 50% more punch for 50% more IPCs than a mech. So they are even in that regard.
The difference is, you get MORE mechs for the same amount of money. When you buy tanks you are paying more to do the same amount of damage BUT being able to take less hits, which means you won’t be firing as many times, which means in the long run you are severely handicapping yourself.
NO when you buy a combination of units ( combined arms) and perform hit and run attacks ( e.g. attacking as long as you are trading your infantry, for defenders mechs) you cause more damage than having one type of unit. Also, the added investment for getting threes overcomes any two unit defending allowing for hit and run tactics of weakening the defender till he falls.
It’s not a matter of opinion. If you don’t believe me type “Statisitical analysis” into google and see for yourself.
Yes and if you think a 3 is the same as a 2 if you are doing a hit and run attack, look up Statistical ( correct spelling BTW) analysis and Google that, or read the book on Statistics for Dummies.
Even if hitting and running, I’d take 6 mechs over 4 tanks any day. You get the same odds to hit for the same cost, BUT you can take more hits, and when you take a hit, you lose lower cost units.
Thats just the problem, you are comparing a bunch of one type of unit to another bunch of one type of unit. Combined arms approach/ hit and run of Tanks and Infantry and some artillery do the trick best, and in your ridiculous example which seldom occurs, consider if possible a group of infantry vs a group of mechs, Infantry defending wins, so does that mean you just buy infantry? NO. You need many types of units for a dynamic ability for offensive and defensive options. A stupid bunch of tanks or a bunch of mech with no fodder is a stupid move or buy. Again you need combined arms.
You may think 4 tanks hit more often than 6 mechs, but probability says you’re wrong.
You can make up things that not one person ever said in any post and make it their point, but you may look stupid for assuming the same. Again combined arms approach with hit and run is best not stupid stacks of 50 mechs or 50 tanks.
If you buy a tank (or 2 tanks over 3 mechs, rather), you are paying for nothing better, you only sacrifice hits you can take.
Again i guess you don’t believe in combined arms/ hit and run approach. YOU just buy mech then, well in your next game just buy them and nothing else. You can bring up all the examples of tanks vs mechs all day but if you consider a real combined arms/hit and run approach of tanks, infantry, artillery, and mech as well as planes, you find greater success in your results.
I suppose one possible exception is when you have a ton of IPCs but not enough factory capacity to spend them at, in which case tanks may be acceptable then, but nearly all of the time, buying tanks instead 2-2-2-4 independent blitzing mechs is just stupid if you’re looking to win.
I say a combined arms and hit and run tactics is the best overall but the land units have to be in a perfect ratio and that “just buy mechs never buy tanks mantra” is not the way to go.
using the new values in a battle of Eight 2-2 mechs costing 32 IPC vs. 10 infantry costing 30 IPC, the infantry win on defense 84.5%, so does this mean you should only buy infantry? NO.
-
Do you know what a straw man argument is? It’s taking one part of someone’s argument and arguing against that making it the main focus, even if it’s not even close to a main point much less a point of theirs at all.
Somehow it was interpreted that when I said under a 2-2-2-4 lone blitzing mech system, one should buy mechs instead of tanks, all of a sudden I am being painted as though I said mechs should be bought instead of everything.
3 mechs are better than 2 tanks under IL’s system for mechs. The post below will prove it.
NO rather you paint my position as a comparison of mech and tanks. I never advocated this. Under the Alpha rules with combined arms and hit and run tactics if you stop buying tanks and just fight any other defending force with mech, you will lose more economically because at some point you are trading defending infantry for mechs and losing 4 for 3 gained.
-
Has anyone thought of different priced tanks for different countries? Although this really would mean that A&A uses a 10 sided dice now with the rule that the lower the number the better.
Something like this:
Germany
Cost: 6
Attack: 5
Defense:5Russia/US:
Cost: 5
Attack: 4
Defense : 4UK
Cost: 5
Attack: 4
Defense:3Japan/Italy
Cost: 4
Attack: 3
Defend: 3 -
Your point was that combined arms (by that we are talking a mix of tanks and mechs, I’m not denying that inf are important too) is better than all tanks or all mechs. Logic and statistics prove that wrong.
Can you really say 4 tanks and 6 mechs plus x infantry, y artillery, and z planes is better than 12 mechs plus x infantry, y artillery, and z planes? If so, prove it statistically!
Let me help you with the actual games rules dealing with combined arms:
Artillery boost infantry on attack to 2
Tanks boost tactical bombers to a 4
Both at 1:1Just do 1-2 rounds of combat using combination’s of all the units and change only the amounts of tanks vs mech keeping all the other units the same.
For example: Attacking 10 infantry 4 tanks 4 tactical bombers, 5 artillery
Defending: 10 infantry, 6 mechs, 5 artillery, 4 tactical bombers. these are both 118 IPCAttacking: 5 ones, 10 two’s, 4 threes, 4 fours= 53 –— against Defending: 21 two’s, 4 three’s =54.
1st ROUND:
each side will lose 9 units in the first round on average. Both sides remove 9 infantry…battle is draw…2nd ROUND:
Attacking: 1 one’s, 5 two’s, 4 three’s, 4 fours= 39------------- against defending: 12 twos, 4 threes = 36.Each side loses 6 units ( note the attackers are really getting 6.5 hits vs. 6.0 for defender: attacker loses 1 infantry, 5 artillery= 23 ipc Defender loses 1 Infantry, and 5 artillery= 23 ipc…Draw
So here neither side gained in hit and run, so lets see how they fair reversed:
Remember in this we are using the new ideas mech are not boosted by artillery…
Defending 10 infantry 4 tanks 4 tactical bombers, 5 artillery
Attacking: 10 infantry, 6 mechs, 5 artillery, 4 tactical bombers.
these are both 118 IPC1st Round:
Defenders=54
Attackers=44No need for math, on defense mech vs tanks is no issue, but since math is not a strong suit lets do it anyway…
54/6=9 hits
44/6=7 hits2nd Round:
Attackers left with 1 infantry, 6 mechs, 5 artillery, 4 tactical bombers.
Defender left with 3 infantry 4 tanks 4 tactical bombers, 5 artilleryAttacker 35
Defender 4035/6 =6 enemy killed
40/6 =7 enemy killed3rd Round
Attackers left with 5 mechs, 4 tactical bombers.
Defender left with 4 tanks 4 tactical bombers, 2 artilleryAttacker 22/6= 4 enemy killed
Defender 32/6=5 enemy killed4th Round:
Attackers left with 4 tactical bombers.
Defender left with 2 tanks 4 tactical bombersIn the end the defense has a net of 12 IPC more, if you continue the odds get worse.
Summary: on attack groups of tanks mixed in with other units vs mech mixed in with other units no advantage to either side in hit and run tactics.
On defense tanks with mixed units vs mech on attack with combined units shows tanks fair better.See? case closed. I KNEW I WAS CORRECT.
All your examples are for types of combat that i made no claim about, so just drop it. Nobody said anything about how a group of just tanks and just mech fighting it out will prevail. Eventually, you lose mech to my infantry and I’m trading off your 4 for my 3.
ON the defense it just gets worse for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit-and-run_tactics
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/585492/tactical-bombers-and-tanksfighters
http://www.mathsisfun.com/associative-commutative-distributive.html
http://www.bymath.com/studyguide/ana/ana_topics.html
Suggested Topics
