FMG COMBAT UNITS - Rules: COMMANDER

[FieldMarshalGames]

Hello,
      As the first set is about to be released, I am getting a lot of questions from customers in regards to the expansion pieces we are including.  I am often asked “Will you include rules for these”.

My initial idea was that the house rules of this forum would fill the gap, but many of my customers are not members.

I have decided that I will include a print out of “Suggested Rules” for the expansion pieces.  The sheet will also include an invitation to this community and direction to the HOUSE RULE forum.

I have opened this thread to discuss COMMANDERS and expansion rules for their use.

Please feel free to chime in as the BEST options will be posted in this handout.

[Fishmoto37]

@FieldMarshalGames:

Hello,
       As the first set is about to be released, I am getting a lot of questions from customers in regards to the expansion pieces we are including.  I am often asked “Will you include rules for these”.

My initial idea was that the house rules of this forum would fill the gap, but many of my customers are not members.

I have decided that I will include a print out of “Suggested Rules” for the expansion pieces.  The sheet will also include an invitation to this community and direction to the HOUSE RULE forum.

I have opened this thread to discuss COMMANDERS and expansion rules for their use.

Please feel free to chime in as the BEST options will be posted in this handout.

Our group has been using commanders in the 1939 game by IL. We start with three commanders for each major nation in the setup to be placed where desired by the player. Additional ones can be purchased during the purchase new units phase for six IPCs. Commanders can move one space on their own or be transported by other units excluding fighters, tact. bombers, artillary and infantry. They do not take up any transportation space so any number of them may move on a transport, bomber, tank ect. They do not have any combat value but they may direct fire by all units during the first round of combat. They also may order a retreat after any full combat round. This is true for any defending army as well as the attacking army. Commanders in naval battles work the same way. This makes the first round of combat very different. When Commanders are captured they are removed from the game.

[General 6 Stars]

We use the commanders in IL Advance World War 2 game. They give ground troops and naval ships a +1 on attack and defend. You go by the value of commander. If he has a value of 8, then 8 pieces can defend or attack at +1. Maybe have value of commanders at 2 to 4 value and only get +1 for 1st round only so they don’t make your troops or navy to strong. Can and will change course of game.

[General 6 Stars]

Have commanders at start of game like fish says. Germany 3, Italy 2, Japan 2 gr, 1 sea, Russia 3, Uk 3, USA 2 gr, 1 sea, Anzac 1 but no more during game.

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

I’m thinking of using commanders in this way:

Commanders are non attacking or defending land units that are taken as the last causality in a land battle exactly like a transport.When present in a battle (either attacking or defending) you may reroll one missed die for each type of unit in the battle that missed. This means that commanders are most useful in battles with mixed forces. For example if each type of land unit was present in an battle the commander would average contribute an additional 1-2 or maybe 3 hits depending on the value of the new units. since a commanders influence could be quite large in a battle they would need to be fairly expensive. I’m thinking 15 ipcs.

Also considering giving Commanders the right to travel with fleets on a capital ship such as Aircraft carriers and battleships. Commanders would work the the same way in a sea battle as in an land battle.

Just thoughts. Whatever the rule ends up being it needs to relate to the commanders actual role in the war. It would be a mistake to make for an example a commander an attacking unit as commanders were not platoon or even divisions. Commanders are planners. I also think a +1 across the board is also a bad idea as it would become over powerful in a large battle. However a +1 to one unit of each unit type would be appropriate and not over powerful.

Take it or leave it. Thanks again FMG for your excellent contributions to the community.

[Fishmoto37]

@Gen:

Have commanders at start of game like fish says. Germany 3, Italy 2, Japan 2 gr, 1 sea, Russia 3, Uk 3, USA 2 gr, 1 sea, Anzac 1 but no more during game.

Having given additional thought to the commander unit idea I would suggest a fixed number of these units in the original setup only. That would increase their value and give more thought to their protection.

[Imperious Leader]

Each commander has a rating that forms a new way of bidding. Players who use generals no longer use the bidding system, but rather raise or lower the generals rating to balance the game.

When that is decided each general has a value.

Points for doing certain actions cost points>

Generals can do the following:

1. Retreat units on defence ( each unit doing this costs 1 leadership point)
2. Provide a unit boost of +1 in combat for one round  ( costs 2 points per unit)
3. Re-roll a miss in combat ( This costs 3 points)

A generals range is 4 spaces, so it can effect and allocate these benefits as outlined in various combat situations.

Use tokens or chips to indicate remaining leadership points.

These units can effect only land or sea (admirals). If used at sea they are placed and moved with their flagship.

If lost in battle they are replaced but after a one turn penalty at no cost.

[Fishmoto37]

@Imperious:

Each commander has a rating that forms a new way of bidding. Players who use generals no longer use the bidding system, but rather raise or lower the generals rating to balance the game.

When that is decided each general has a value.

Points for doing certain actions cost points>

Generals can do the following:

1. Retreat units on defence ( each unit doing this costs 1 leadership point)
2. Provide a unit boost of +1 in combat for one round  ( costs 2 points per unit)
3. Re-roll a miss in combat ( This costs 3 points)

A generals range is 4 spaces, so it can effect and allocate these benefits as outlined in various combat situations.

Use tokens or chips to indicate remaining leadership points.

These units can effect only land or sea (admirals). If used at sea they are placed and moved with their flagship.

If lost in battle they are replaced but after a one turn penalty at no cost.

I do not agree with replacing commanders with no cost. You cannot just replace a good general out of thin air. Look what happened to Lee when he lost Jackson. Commander units should be protected at all costs. If they are not replacable then one would HAVE to give careful thought to how they are used and where. Commanders should be limited to the setup or make their purchase very expensive.

[Imperious Leader]

The example of Jackson is somewhat antiquated.  Generals are really HQ behind the scenes and represent infrastructure and the ability to command operations in the field. Not a single major commander sake Paulus faced capture or death. Generals are only a figure because the representation of a building for a HQ is not very glamorous, and consequently the name commander or general is really an easier namesake due to the nature of the sculpt.

The problem with assigning a cost is that once you lost the general, you are really behind. In the war, many generals were replaced with other good ones so its not really a cost to maintain the high quality of leadership.

But perhaps we can just make the cost very low, but introduce a random draw to reconfigure the leadership value for each new general.

Then again another idea is to start all generals having the same value or not and then allow the ‘purchase’ of replacement generals paying a cost per leadership point.

So a replacement leader has a base cost of 3 and each leadership point costs additional 1 IPC per point.

Example: Germany starts with Manstein ( general with rating of 8) , but he was lost fighting in France so Rommel is now built. the German player wants to 'purchase" a 12 value general, so he pays 3 +12 = 15 IPC for this new general.

[Fishmoto37]

@Imperious:

The example of Jackson is somewhat antiquated.  Generals are really HQ behind the scenes and represent infrastructure and the ability to command operations in the field. Not a single major commander sake Paulus faced capture or death. Generals are only a figure because the representation of a building for a HQ is not very glamorous, and consequently the name commander or general is really an easier namesake due to the nature of the sculpt.

The problem with assigning a cost is that once you lost the general, you are really behind. In the war, many generals were replaced with other good ones so its not really a cost to maintain the high quality of leadership.

But perhaps we can just make the cost very low, but introduce a random draw to reconfigure the leadership value for each new general.

Then again another idea is to start all generals having the same value or not and then allow the ‘purchase’ of replacement generals paying a cost per leadership point.

So a replacement leader has a base cost of 3 and each leadership point costs additional 1 IPC per point.

Example: Germany starts with Manstein ( general with rating of 8) , but he was lost fighting in France so Rommel is now built. the German player wants to 'purchase" a 12 value general, so he pays 3 +12 = 15 IPC for this new general.

Is it logical for the richer nation to have the higher quality general? Better equipment, yes. Just look at the poor southern states with Jackson. Oops I did it again.

[Imperious Leader]

The question is this cost issue. Should they be built or replaced with new general if disgraced. The general is not getting killed in battle, as in civil war but just replaced in the attempt to find better leadership. A poor nation ( france, Italy, Anzac could not rebuilt them if lost). But if they just suffered a penalty of a turn if they lost the battle , it would be more realistic for WW2 because this is merely a new general taking command after the last one failed to get any results.

In fact id like a set of cards made for each nation where players draw them in a deck if they lose one.

it might model the UK changes of command like in north Africa. Generals could be placed in this deck in sequence and if lost, you draw the next one and eventually you get a good one.

It might be a situation where you have 2-3 generals ( for each front) and you have a deck of 12 generals to cycle thru during the game, perhaps one new general is drawn and placed on the front per turn or if you win a battle you earn this right ( either sea or land). Each general will have unique abilities as expressed on the card.

[MrBlack103]

I do not think commanders should be purchased, or something that each power just “gets” automatically. I’m thinking they should be placed when a battle is won “against the odds”. What “against the odds” means specifically is up for debate really. This would represent the simple chance that the commander that is already with the army happens to be really good at what he does, and keeps contributing this throughout the war.

As for what they do after they appear:

Commanders are non attacking or defending land units that are taken as the last causality in a land battle exactly like a transport.When present in a battle (either attacking or defending) you may reroll one missed die for each type of unit in the battle that missed. This means that commanders are most useful in battles with mixed forces. For example if each type of land unit was present in an battle the commander would average contribute an additional 1-2 or maybe 3 hits depending on the value of the new units. since a commanders influence could be quite large in a battle they would need to be fairly expensive. I’m thinking 15 ipcs.

Also considering giving Commanders the right to travel with fleets on a capital ship such as Aircraft carriers and battleships. Commanders would work the the same way in a sea battle as in an land battle.

This.

[dannyboy2016]

Here are my thoughts

Commanders
Cost: 12 ipcs
Attack: 0
Defense: 0

Movement: Commanders may attach themselves to any unit type gaining the movement points of that movement (and the ability to move over air or on water as applicable). They do not have an attack or defense value and are lost if that unit is destroyed.

Special:

Commanders may use one special ability per battle. Multiple commanders may be in a territory during a battle and up to three of them may use an ability. However, their ability effects may not stack. Thus, two commanders working in tandem could not increase the attack power of your tanks by +2, but they could increase the attack power of tanks and infantry by +1.

You must declare which abilities you will be using before the first cycle of combat.

Abilities:

GENERAL ABILITIES

Extra Offensive power: Pick one unit type. For this battle all units of this type attack at +1 (unit must be able to attack normally).

Extra defensive Power: Pick one unit type. For this battle all units of this type defend at +1 (unit must be able to defend normally).

Strategic Retreat: After the first cycle of combat is played out you may retreat all of your defending units into a neighboring allied controlled territory.

re-roll: Once per battle, at the end of a combat cycle, you may re-roll for all of your units that missed during this combat cycle. You must declare that you will be using it before your first roll.

damage reduction: Once per battle, at the end of a combat, cycle, you may reduce the number of casualties inflicted by the enemy by half (rounded up)

LAND SPECIFIC

preliminary bombardment: your artillery units may make a special bombardment before the first cycle of combat. Any units killed are immediately removed from play and do not get an opportunity to retaliate.

AIR SPECIFIC

carpet bombing: During a strategic bombardment you may add +1 to the damage inflicetd by each bomber.

NAVAL SPECIFIC

combined bombardment: During an offshore bombardment you may have destroyers conduct offshore bombardments at a 2 or less.

convoy system: your transports may now defend at a 1 (may not be stacked with extra defensive power).

expert gunnery: Pick one type of surface naval vessel (besides the Carrier). During the first cycle of combat you may roll 2 dice for each unit of that type.

[The Dessert Fox]

Ok here is a combination of what has been said and what I think. Some ideas are my own and some are others

DF’s Commander rules

Basic:

Powers start with:
Germany: 3 (2 Land, 1 Air)
US: 3 (1 land, 1 Air, 1Naval)
Japan: 3 (2 Naval, 1 Air)
UK Eu:3 (1 land, 1 air, 1 Naval)
Uk P:1 (1 Land)
Anzac: 1 (1 Land)
France: 0
China: 0
Italy: 1 (1 Naval, 1 Land)
USSR: 3 (3 Land)

Rules:
Each type has special rules
Basic rules are:

• Unable to be bought
• Unreplacable
• No attack or defence points

Land Rules:

Each General/Commander gives 1 hit(on attack and defence) for every 2 units of a type (max 1 hit per unit type)

I.E.

2 Tanks, 8 Inf, 3 art, 1 Mech
One hit for 8 inf, 1 for 2 Tank, 1 for 3 art and 0 for 1 mech. Receives 3 free hits

Movement: 1 with infantry and artillery, 2 with tanks, mech, 3 with FMG trucks

Naval Rules:
Adds 1 attack/defence value for the ship he is in:
Admiral is allowed on any ship
Add 1 attack/defence value for another ship if a 1 is rolled

I.E.
Admiral in BB gives BB attack/defence of 5
Other ships 2 CV, 3 tran, DD

Player rolls 2,3,1,4,1,1

So depending on the Order given

I.E.
CV roll 1
CV roll 2
DD roll 3
Tran roll 4
Etc.

DD gets 3 attack/defence value
Tran #2 gets 1 att/def value
tran #3 gets 1 att/def value

Air rules:
Squadron commander flys in any kind of plane. If in Bmr in Sbmr raid adds 1 to any roll/ If in ftr in scramble (for G40) adds 1 def value/ Increases att value of 1 plane by 1 for every 3 planes in battle.

Historical rules coming soon

[dadler12]

I think we should all stick with simple ideas here, this is axis and allies not dungeons and dragons.  I like the idea of having the commander give a bonus to one type but I also like the idea of having the commander give a bonus to using units in combination with each other (mech inf and tanks for example) because it would allow a new dimension of strategy. Also commanders should be purchased instead of replaced automatically.  It takes a great deal of money to train, equip, and deploy a new commander or a new hq if you prefer to think of it that way.  Depending on the kind of bonus they give I think a cost of 10-15 IPC with a cap on total number of commanders allowed would suffice.  Maybe 1 commander per each branch of armed forces (land, sea, air)?

[Imperious Leader]

OK looking at some of the ideas….

You start with one general and in your turn just place him in one space:

Land General: can move units 2 spaces, also if he is in combat with tanks, they can be used to target enemy land units of any type of their choosing.

At the end of your turn, you place it again in any other area. If on the enemy turn they attack the space with your general, you can retreat part of all of your forces after any complete combat round.

Sea Admiral: Select one ship as your “flagship” it can target any ship and if it hits only that ship is hit ( or sunk). If you select a Carrier, it allows that carrier to carry an extra fighter ( 3 total), and with 1 hit it can still fight and launch fighters.

Germany gets a second commander when Russia is at war with Axis
Japan Gets a second commander when USA is activated
USA gets a second commander when they first perform any sea invasion
UK Gets a second Commander when USA is activated
French commander is removed when Paris falls, and can appear again once Paris is taken
Soviet gets another commander when Germany takes one Soviet VC.

[FieldMarshalGames]

@Imperious:

OK looking at some of the ideas….

You start with one general and in your turn just place him in one space:

Land General: can move units 2 spaces, also if he is in combat with tanks, they can be used to target enemy land units of any type of their choosing.

At the end of your turn, you place it again in any other area. If on the enemy turn they attack the space with your general, you can retreat part of all of your forces after any complete combat round.

Sea Admiral: Select one ship as your “flagship” it can target any ship and if it hits only that ship is hit ( or sunk). If you select a Carrier, it allows that carrier to carry an extra fighter ( 3 total), and with 1 hit it can still fight and launch fighters.

Germany gets a second commander when Russia is at war with Axis
Japan Gets a second commander when USA is activated
USA gets a second commander when they first perform any sea invasion
UK Gets a second Commander when USA is activated
French commander is removed when Paris falls, and can appear again once Paris is taken
Soviet gets another commander when Germany takes one Soviet VC.

I like this also.  It keeps it simple.  Allows you to “Target” one Hit per round? or do you target just one units roll?  And the tactical retreat.

[Imperious Leader]

Allows you to “Target” one Hit per round? or do you target just one units roll?  And the tactical retreat.

Well you select the target first and the unit that is rolling to hit it. If you hit that selected unit, it is gone. Same with the flagship idea. If defender fires back, you can just take off infantry

The naval modeling is accurate because typically the flagship is a battleship and it has ranged guns that can hit stuff at greater ranges than itself can come under fire.

The only other ship you might be an admiral on is a carrier, which would be the main fleet strength so a third plane and a real free hit carrier ( as opposed to the OOB where you cant even use the planes if you take a hit)

ON land what is going on is your general leads the focal point of the attack and he is going in after enemy tanks, so you cant just soak off infantry.

I don’t think the defense should have any combat benefit other than retreat, because typically the defense is at double defense with all the 1-2 units.

[The Dessert Fox]

Ok here are my ideas for a historic rule set

DF’s Commander rules

Historical:

Powers start with:
Germany: 3 (2 Land, 1 Air)
US: 3 (1 land, 1 Air, 1Naval)
Japan: 3 (2 Naval, 1 Air)
UK Eu:3 (1 land, 1 air, 1 Naval)
Uk P:1 (1 Land)
Anzac: 1 (1 Land)
France: 1 (Free)
China: 2 (1 Communist, 1 Nationalist)
Italy: 1 (1 Naval, 1 Land)
USSR: 3 (3 Land)

Maybe edited due to historic leaders not being the type listed

Rules

Every nation starts with what is stated in a territory where they would have been.
Excluding Soviets

The Soviets gain 1 commander every turn until the end of turn three

Each leader has a special unit type i.e. Rommels Afrika Korps which is with them at all time

Ideas

German

Rommel Land

Afrika Korps Armour att 4 def 3 Rommel often attacked when faced with enemy resistance hoping to suprise the enemy so they couldn’t attack his vulnerable flanks

Early Rommel

Passive power (Used in every battle)
Ghost Division
Due to the fast moving advances Rommel’s Panzer’s were often out of Radio Contact

In the first round of every battle involving Rommel and at least one German tank per tank roll one dice hitting at 1. For every hit one tank is able to fire a suprise shot against an enemy hitting at 3 or less (if firing in this round not allowed to fire in normal combat round)

Active power (Used once)
Attack on Lille
General Hoth placed the 5th panzer division under Rommel’s command for the assualt on Lille

Place a armour unit on the battle board for free attacking at normal stats and destroyed at the end of the turn.

Becomes Middle Rommel on G2 if in a North African territory or G3 in any other

More ideas to come

[dadler12]

I have an idea.  If a commander is in a territory adjacent to a territory being attacked the commander can move 1 of each type of unit in the territory to the territory under attack, arriving for the 2nd round of combat.  Similar to Patton in the battle of the bulge.  What do you think?

Question for IL.  If a land commander is attached to a tank do all the tanks that hit chose their targets or only the one the commander is attached to?  Also, does this last every round?  What if the commander targets only with his unit and any units paired with it the first round of combat (say a tank and a mech inf blitzing with it or an infantry supported by artillery) and an additional unit of the same type for every additional round of combat?  This way the bonus isn’t too overwhelming but it can grow as combat continues on.

Also, defending commanders should be able to target units.  A good commander will know how to counterattack as well as when to tactically retreat.  And perhaps the amount of units that can retreat should be capped at 1 of each type in the territory, or maybe 2 of each.  Otherwise I see the retreat ability as being too overpowered.  What do you think?