FRANCE and ANZAC COMBAT DICE - HELP us design them!

[FieldMarshalGames]

Hello all,
      I have already had many requests for ANZAC COMBAT DICE and we were already to go ahead with production…  and now we have hit a snag.

The Grey color of the ANZAC units has really thrown us for a loop!  Also, I was shocked by the ANZAC roundel that was chosen.  We had imagined it would be the kiwi or Kangaroo roundel shown in attached picture.

I also have some feelers out with insiders trying to find out what unit color FRANCE will use so we can move forward with these and release at the same time. (If you have any information please share here)

My questions are:  Should we use the AAP40 ANZAC roundel?  If we changed the color of the ANZAC COMBAT DICE and matched it to the ANZAC units we are selling next year would that be ok?  Im just afraid those who do not get a set of COMBAT UNITS will not understand the COMBAT DICE if we do this.

Please help with your valuable advice…

YOU CAN PLACE TWO VOTES ABOVE…  ONE FOR EACH ISSUE

[HBG]

I would like to see this as Anzac
Kangaroo Roundel is used from 1946-Present.

[Emperor_Taiki]

Well, i would think most players would be playing with the AAP40 board when using these dice. So the dice should match the roundles of the game how ever wierd, just like all the other combat dice.

I  would recomend however chaning the unit colors as well as the combat dice, because grey does not fit the ANZAC forces very well and the German dice (and my understanding is the coming FMG german peices to) are grey.

Also France’s color is going to be blue. You can tell that from the french borders on the new pacfic board and it just makes sence since much of the french uniform was blue and its kinda france’s color historically. Judging from the pacfic board its going to be a very blue blue, not to dark or light.

[Imperious Leader]

The roundels must match the games components.

The dice should be the same colors, but ANZAC are problematic, so i suggest a new color for them ( white?)

French should be a light blue

[dinosaur]

I like the kangaroo and I’m not offended that it wasn’t used during the war.

I do want to see ANZAC pieces in a new color with matching dice.  Is there an Aussie color close to the color of the British pieces?  The color does need to be reasonably distinguishable from the Brits though.  White doesn’t do it for me.

I have other thoughts on the Aussies, but I can’t bring myself to risk hijacking the thread.

Thanks for your good work on these projects FMG.

[Rorschach]

I agree that the roundel should match WotC’s roundel, for consistancy there.

But I also don’t think the combat dice (or new units) should be grey.  Off white/Ivory perhaps (and match the new unit pieces to them) or maybe a very very light Tan (something that will contrast/differ from the UK pieces).

[Guest]

I am totally undecided and I am still in shock that they used gray for ANZAC

[HBG]

@Imperious:

The roundels must match the games components.

The dice should be the same colors, but ANZAC are problematic, so i suggest a new color for them ( white?)

French should be a light blue

I agree!!

[DrLarsen]

Since it’s really several separate issues, I’ll group my thoughts on each separately:

1. ANZAC Roundel Issue: I prefer the Kangaroo one, even thought it’s ahistorical, and won’t match the board.  My thoughts are that FMG’s pieces and dice aren’t JUST A&A, but general-purpose WW2-era strategy-level game parts that could be and will be used on all sorts of different boards.  What’s more, having such a difference would help you make the case, should WotC ever try to sue you guys for copyright infringement.  This is the issue I’m most wavering on, though, because I can see the argument of those who want this gear to match at least the board… (As an aside to the curious, I did some research on the new ANZAC roundel and found that it came from a hat badge made famous by Aussie troops in His Majesty’s service.  I still prefer the kangaroo one, but at least I know why they chose it now.)

2. Change the colors, I think.  I suggest the light green from the earliest versions of the WotC variations would be a good one.  (If you’re not sure which one I mean, it’s the one TT used for their British units, and it’s kind of almost half-way between the US green and the UK tan, but I think easily distinguishable from both.)  On the other hand, whatever you do, don’t go with white!  White would be a good neutral color, but even the WotC grey-brown would be better for the ANZACS!  (As an aside, I picked up a copy of AAP40 today, and, fortunately, it’s at least not a pure grey, but more of a greyish, tannish brown, which was a considerable relief to me.)

3. French roundel: use the French aircraft roundel, which is like the British one, but reversed and without the yellow outer ring.

4. French color: definitely blue.  Which shade, I’m not sure.  If there’s some way to find out what WotC is using, I’d say get it close.  (Assuming that they use blue… if they happen not to, use blue anyway.  Horizon blue was actually, I think, somewhat obsolete among the French by this point, but it still makes for a recognizable and iconic “French” uniform color, so I say go with it if WotC is going to do something strange again with their colors.)

5. Now that I’ve actually seen the new ANZACS “in the plastic”  I say keep issues 1 & 2 linked… If you change the roundel, change the colors, because both are, after all, an odd choice.  However, the color isn’t quite as bad as I’d feared, so if you’re going to keep the roundel, maybe staying with (or close to) the color would make the most sense.  (I know that you’ve said that the Italian color you’re using will be slightly different from the AAA Italian color and thus a little more easily distinguished from the soviet color… you could do something similar with the ANZAC color by making it a little more brownish, perhaps, and a little less grayish.)

[Rorschach]

Now that is a very well thought out and well written piece there DrLarson!  Very nice.
I can agree with you as well for the most part.

1. Roundel : I didn’t even think about the general purpose use.  With that in mind, going with the most historically accurate would be my personal choice.

2. Color : On thinking, I don’t think White would work for ANZAC either.  But Light green would not be a very good choice either.  FMG’s Combat Dice for China are a light green (or as I like to call it ‘baby puke green’) already.  I think there needs to be another color choice.

White would make a good neutral color yes.

[Flashman]

The one proposed by Coachofmany is correct for BE Pacific forces.

Does anyone know what the official design is meant to represent, or is a it a complete invention of Wizards?

[CWO Marc]

@Flashman:

Does anyone know what the official design is meant to represent, or is a it a complete invention of Wizards?

My guess is that it’s an invention used to cover both Australia and New Zealand in a single design.  A roundel with a kiwi bird would work for New Zealand but not Australia, and a roundel with a kangaroo would have the reverse problem, so WotC may have been trying to split the difference.

[FieldMarshalGames]

I did a google image search for the word “ANZAC” and this is what I found!

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

Great to know that the symbol they used was real. Definitely use the AAP40’s ANZAC’s symbol. However changing the units to a more tanish color instead of gray is preferable.

[DrLarsen]

Now that I have the physical pieces in front of me, and now that I can see that there is a blue border around the new WotC ANZAC roundel and that the ANZAC color has at least a tannish tinge to it, I’m starting to soften a little be in my opposition to it.  I think that if you make that blue border a stronger, clearer blue that matches the Canadian and UK roundels, that it could be OK as a theoretical symbol to sub for both kangaroo and kiwi… At the same time, if you do for the ANZAC’s what you did for the Italians (Change the color enough so that it isn’t so easily confused with the German grey, like you changed the Italian brown a little to distinguish it from the Soviet brown) I think that could work, too.  (It’s odd, because it seems to depend on the lighting… sometimes the new ANZAC’s look very grey to me, sometimes almost more tannish/ greyish brown.)  In any case, if you make them more definitely tannish or brownish and less greyish, I think that will do the trick.  (The border shading on the box for the ANZAC’s might be a good color to try… it’s kind of close, but definitely looks less greyish…)

[FieldMarshalGames]

Thank you all.  We have decided to use the AAP40 roundel.

I will post when I have more news or pictures.

[Variable]

Thanks for sticking with the P40 roundel. I think it’s best for consistency sake.

As for the dice, if you make the ANZAC dice the same pewter colour as the pieces, could you change the German dice to black?

Another option is the Brits were once moulded in a very faint green colour that I’ve been using as ANZAC for some time. I don’t recall which game had the greenish pieces (someone help out), but that would be an OK colour to go with too. Think of a very pale Chinese piece. I agree with the others that white is not the best as we should use white for the neutrals.

[FieldMarshalGames]

@Variable:

Thanks for sticking with the P40 roundel. I think it’s best for consistency sake.

As for the dice, if you make the ANZAC dice the same pewter colour as the pieces, could you change the German dice to black?

Another option is the Brits were once moulded in a very faint green colour that I’ve been using as ANZAC for some time. I don’t recall which game had the greenish pieces (someone help out), but that would be an OK colour to go with too. Think of a very pale Chinese piece. I agree with the others that white is not the best as we should use white for the neutrals.

The problem is we can’t change the GERMANY dice, they are already made and I still have about 5000 of them in my shop!

We may adjust the ANZAC colour slightly…  just as we did with ITALY dice.

[Variable]

@FieldMarshalGames:

@Variable:

Thanks for sticking with the P40 roundel. I think it’s best for consistency sake.

As for the dice, if you make the ANZAC dice the same pewter colour as the pieces, could you change the German dice to black?

Another option is the Brits were once moulded in a very faint green colour that I’ve been using as ANZAC for some time. I don’t recall which game had the greenish pieces (someone help out), but that would be an OK colour to go with too. Think of a very pale Chinese piece. I agree with the others that white is not the best as we should use white for the neutrals.

The problem is we can’t change the GERMANY dice, they are already made and I still have about 5000 of them in my shop!

We may adjust the ANZAC colour slightly…  just as we did with ITALY dice.

How about a very pale green or very pale grey then? Almost white, but not quite…

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

I think changing ANZAC to a truer “dark Tan” (as the rulebook claims they are) would be best rather than keeping the current gray pewter colored piece. Dark tan also helps to identify their affiliation with the UK. (Im thinking of a color just a shade lighter than the ANZAC box)