Argo's Middleweight Map for 1939 & 1942

[Argothair]

After further thought, I have also altered the South Pacific Sea Zones, mostly for the benefit of the 1942 scenario.

The Coral Sea Zone has been split in half to make it harder for the Japanese to reach Sydney – they can still raid northern Australia and even Queensland, but now New South Wales is at its proper distance. I also added Guam, New Caledonia (a Free French Pacific colony), and Samoa to the map, along with the Polynesian Sea Zone to hold New Caledonia and Samoa. Guam and Samoa will boost the American income a bit to help even them up with Britain and Japan, and the extra $1 of French income will help give the French player more choices about what units to buy after the fall of Paris (as well as give the French the theoretical option of building a barracks in the Pacific and focusing against Japan instead of Italy). Meanwhile, the reshaped Solomon Sea Zone leads to more interesting and accurate decisions around the Guadalcanal Campaign, and Guam provides a final stop on America’s central Pacific route if they want to follow the historical strategy of island-hopping and then bombing the Japanese mainland.

Finally, we have some unit tweaks – the price of 5/4/2 battleships will drop from $16 to $13; the price of 1/2/2 carriers will drop from $14 to $11. This will help keep them competitive with the surprisingly useful 3/3/3 cruisers, which already only cost $9 and seem well-balanced there against subs and destroyers. Meanwhile, interceptor planes’ movement will be boosted from 2 to 3 to enable them to play a more relevant role at sea.

If anyone has any complaints, concerns, or feature requests, please send them in – otherwise, I will post the game to the server.

[General 6 Stars]

BB shore shot 5 and CR 3 ? BB shore 5 even if damaged ?
Does your BB and AC drop in AD if damaged ?
3 move CR is basically a fast attack boat with shore shot for islands ?
If your destroyers is 2/3/2 C6 that is to strong compared to a CR C9 3/3/3.

[Argothair]

@general-6-stars The BB and AC (like all units in this game) are 1-hit, so the issue of them dropping in attack and defense when they’re damaged doesn’t come up – if they’re damaged, they’re dead.

The cruiser, unlike the destroyer, can carry a commando and/or bombard, so that’s part of what you’re getting for the extra $3 in addition to the +1 attack and +1 move.

Historically, in WWII pretty much all the ships travelled at the same speed, except for some slow merchant transports and older destroyers and escort carriers that were assigned to guard them. By giving the cruiser an extra point of move, I’m not really suggesting that it’s a separate type of ship – buying and using cruisers is more about saying “we’re just going to strike fast and hard with whichever ships are available right now, instead of waiting a few weeks or months for the entire fleet to be repaired and refueled and available.” The game turns for this map are about 5 months long, which is plenty of time for warships to sail around the world and back, so it’s all an abstraction anyway.

[Argothair]

New version is available for download from the server! In addition to the changes discussed above (ship costs, Guam, Samoa, boost to '39 Axis starting units, etc.), I have also playtested the '42 scenario a few more times and have added additional Allied starting units in the '42 scenario, as well as a few strategy notes for that map. I believe both maps are now reasonably balanced, although as always, more human playtesting will have the final vote.

[General 6 Stars]

If interested. Crunched your numbers. Just what I would go with for values based on getting my moneys worth for each piece.
BB C13 A4 1.13 D4 1.13 2 hits Sh4
CR C9 A3 .89 D3 .89 Sh3 M3 1 inf
DD C7 A2 .98 D2 .98 Bl Sub FS
SS C6 A2 1.33 D1 .67 Fstrike
PB C5 A1 .96 D1 .96 Bl Sub FS
CA C11 A1 .20 D2 .40

I go by the decimal number and the DD, SS and PB are good and balanced for numbers.
The CR is always weaker but with the added M3, carry 1 inf and Sh3 is a very nice piece to have now. Most games have CR & Tac just to weak.
I’ve been using the decimal numbers in my games for years.
I may try the patrol boat now in my game. Group may get iffy ! lol
Other wise good luck with what your doing.

Just IMO

[Argothair]

@general-6-stars Thanks for weighing in! I am potentially interested in your feedback, but if you want me to adjust stats based on your numbers, then you will need to clearly explain both what the numbers mean and how you are calculating them. For example, for the battleship, I don’t know what “1.13” or “Sh4” means.

Also, it appears that you have already changed some of my combat stats. For example, my battleship has A5, not A4. My destroyer has D3, not D2. Are those your recommended changes? If so, what is the reason behind those recommendations? Please do as much as you can to explain your logic in plain English, rather than just posting strings of abbreviations and numbers.

[General 6 Stars]

@argothair said in Argo's Middleweight Map for 1939 & 1942:

@general-6-stars Thanks for weighing in! I am potentially interested in your feedback, but if you want me to adjust stats based on your numbers, then you will need to clearly explain both what the numbers mean and how you are calculating them. For example, for the battleship, I don’t know what “1.13” or “Sh4” means.

Also, it appears that you have already changed some of my combat stats. For example, my battleship has A5, not A4. My destroyer has D3, not D2. Are those your recommended changes? If so, what is the reason behind those recommendations? Please do as much as you can to explain your logic in plain English, rather than just posting strings of abbreviations and numbers.

Your BB is to weak. Your DD are to strong.
I changed your stats so if I buy a DD, PB, BB or CR I’m getting my moneys worth.
The SH is for shore shot.
The decimal number shows how your piece stacks up to costs for punch.

Your values.
BB C13 A@5 .71 D@4 .57 Shore shot @5 .71
against
2 DD C12 A@6 4.00 D@6 4.00 decimal number tells me DD to strong.

2 DD C12 A@6 4.00 D@6 4.00
against
CR C9 A@3 .89 D@3 .89 But since your CR has the shore Shot @3 .89
and the move 3, plus carry 1 Inf makes up for it being weak against the DD
if it only the CR had AD values plus shore.

Your values

1 BB C13 A@5 .71 D@4 .57 1 hit
against
1 DD C6 A@3 2.00 D@3 2.00

Most people base there Values on Hit % which is fine.

But here I’m buying DD and won’t even come close to a BB.

Mostly its the DD that is to strong in games and CR to weak.

IMO

[Argothair]

@general-6-stars That’s part of the answer I’m looking for, but I still don’t understand your analysis. For example, for the battleship, 5 punch divided by 13 cost is not 0.71. So where does the number 0.71 come from? Are you normalizing the punch/cost ratio against some hypothetical ideal unit that has a ratio of 1.0? If so, what is that unit? If not, what is going on?

[General 6 Stars]

My bud Karl C24 told me about you being a lawyer lol I have a chart conversion but not willing to part with. So I’m assuming if you can’t see it than my opinion doesn’t matter. The 5 punch divided by 13 cost is not .71 That is correct.

Yes The punch/cost ratio against some hypothetical ideal unit that has ratio of 1.
Yes it works in that way.

Also keep in mind if there’s less pieces in your game the more you may lean towards the % hit instead. Depends. But all my games I use the decimal numbers. Yes you will get a piece not quite right but. I be more than willing to see you in person but I know you on west coast. I’m in Wisconsin. Could meet up if you play BBR games east.

[Argothair]

@general-6-stars Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I’m actually in Washington DC these days; I left the west coast. I don’t plan to travel to Wisconsin, but if you’re ever in my neighborhood I’d be happy to buy you a drink and hear more about your thoughts in person.

In the meantime, please don’t post any more secret calculations on my map feedback thread. If you’re not willing to publicly explain where the numbers come from, then I don’t want the numbers on this thread.

[General 6 Stars]

@argothair said in Argo's Middleweight Map for 1939 & 1942:

@general-6-stars Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I’m actually in Washington DC these days; I left the west coast. I don’t plan to travel to Wisconsin, but if you’re ever in my neighborhood I’d be happy to buy you a drink and hear more about your thoughts in person.

In the meantime, please don’t post any more secret calculations on my map feedback thread. If you’re not willing to publicly explain where the numbers come from, then I don’t want the numbers on this thread.

If anyone has any complaints, concerns, or feature requests, please send them in – otherwise, I will post the game to the server.

Yep no problem was going by your comment above. I just try to help out most people with suggestions based on test playing. I won’t post nothing no more.