L22 playoff, OOB Lowluck, crockett (L+30) vs myygames (X)

[crockett36]

@myygames anzac 1Axis & Allies myygames x vs crockett36 low luck Global 1940.2.tsvg

[Myygames]

@crockett36 G3-axis-amp-allies-myygames-x-vs-crockett36-low-luck-global-1940.2.tsvg

@crockett36 Please note that my sub in SZ125 prevents the russian NO according to the rules. Nevertheless there is a trippleA error that does calculate this incorrect, since russia is at war with italy and not with germany. In order to avoid miscalculation you need to declare war with russia on germany now, otherwise we need to edit it afterwards.

Game History

Round: 3

    Research Technology - Germans

    Purchase Units - Germans
        Germans buy 4 armour, 1 infantry and 6 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Germans

    Non Combat Move - Germans
        1 artillery moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        2 bombers and 1 fighter moved from Western Germany to Southern Italy
        1 aaGun, 2 artilleries and 12 infantry moved from Romania to Eastern Poland
        1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from Poland to Baltic States
        6 armour and 9 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Baltic States
        4 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Poland to Eastern Poland
        1 aaGun moved from Slovakia Hungary to Romania
        3 armour and 1 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Eastern Poland
        1 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Yugoslavia to Romania
        4 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to Poland
        1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Northern Italy
        1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 112 Sea Zone to 125 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone

    Place Units - Germans
        1 infantry placed in France
        4 armour and 6 mech_infantrys placed in Germany

    Turn Complete - Germans
        Germans collect 41 PUs; end with 41 PUs
        Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 46 PUs
        Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 51 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

[crockett36]

You’ll have to show me the rule in the book please. doesn’t make any sense logically strategically historically theoretically etc.

[crockett36]

@crockett36 Renegade games! please see this bad rule and change it!

[Myygames]

@crockett36 said in L22 playoff, OOB Lowluck, crockett (L+30) vs myygames (X):

You’ll have to show me the rule in the book please. doesn’t make any sense logically strategically historically theoretically etc.

The NO says „5 IPC if the convoi zone 125 is free of axis warships…“. This is Not the case, 125 is occupied. Please have a look at the section „political situation„ at your rulebook.

I have had this Play several times against me and used it as well several times. The rules are clear i think, but if in doubt we can for sure ask gamerman.

Historically the First tank in eastern poland was a german one, not an Italian. Nevertheless, this is just a boardgame, not history, and its a valid move like this.

[crockett36]

There is no axis alliance against R. The axis have not fully formed. The Allies have not fully formed. Only Italy versus R. Just because it is common doesn’t make it legal or reasonable.

[crockett36]

@crockett36 nothing personal BTW, I just think this is

[crockett36]

@crockett36 a travesty

[crockett36]

I have pm’d krieghund. He’s Larry’s rules guy.

[Myygames]

@crockett36 I do not take this personally, no worries, its just a dispute over a rule that Needs clarification.

I habe reached out to @gamerman01 for carification.

The question, and pls correct me if i am wrong, is about the russia NO
„
When the Soviet Union Is at War in Europe:

IPCs if the convoy in sea zone 125 is free of Axis warships, Archangel is controlled by the Soviet Union, and
there are no units belonging to other Allied powers present in any territories originally controlled by the Soviet
Union. Theme: National prestige and access to Allied Lend-Lease material
„

My Play is declaring war with italy but Not with Germany, so russia is at war with I but Not G at R3. The question is whether the german sub in SZ125 negates the NO or not. Would be grat to geht advice here. Thanx in advance to gamerman for his comments.

[crockett36]

Russia 2 Axis & Allies myygames x vs crockett36 low luck Global 1940.2.tsvg

[gamerman01]

Krieghund’s authority is much greater than mine, so that’s great if crockett is getting an answer from him, but

OOB I’m >90% sure the German sub does disrupt the Russian NO when Italy is at war with Russia. But it’s been a long time since I played OOB.

This is because
a) Russia is at war with Euro-Axis (Italy)
b) Italy and Germany are allied, because they are both at war with the UK
c) The NO rule says when the Soviet Union is at war in Europe (they are at war in Europe because at war with Italy), 125 has to be free of Axis warships. German sub is an Axis warship.

Weird because Russia is not directly at war with Germany, but according to the letter of the law here, Germany doesn’t have to be at war with Russia to disrupt the NO. Make sure with Krieghund, so my answer is basically useless except to say I think myygames is correct.

Note that in the Balanced Mod, Germany is barred from advancing into Russian territory in this manner without declaring war herself. But this isn’t balanced mod.

[Myygames]

@gamerman01 said in L22 playoff, OOB Lowluck, crockett (L+30) vs myygames (X):

Krieghund’s authority is much greater than mine, so that’s great if crockett is getting an answer from him, but

OOB I’m >90% sure the German sub does disrupt the Russian NO when Italy is at war with Russia. But it’s been a long time since I played OOB.

This is because
a) Russia is at war with Euro-Axis (Italy)
b) Italy and Germany are allied, because they are both at war with the UK
c) The NO rule says when the Soviet Union is at war in Europe (they are at war in Europe because at war with Italy), 125 has to be free of Axis warships. German sub is an Axis warship.

Weird because Russia is not directly at war with Germany, but according to the letter of the law here, Germany doesn’t have to be at war with Russia to disrupt the NO. Make sure with Krieghund, so my answer is basically useless except to say I think myygames is correct.

Note that in the Balanced Mod, Germany is barred from advancing into Russian territory in this manner without declaring war herself. But this isn’t balanced mod.

Thanks for your thoughts and appreciate you taking the time to help us here, gamerman!

@crockett36 Based on that I will edit russia back to 35 IPC (without the NO that is incorrectly assigned by TrippleA).

[pacifiersboard]

@myygames @crockett36 @gamerman01 @Krieghund

I saw your dispute by chance. At least it is also in the game notes:

“* (EM) If Russia is at war with Italy, but not with Germany, a German warship in sz125 will cancel Russia’s national objective (and same if at war with Germany but not Italy, and there is an Italian boat in sz125).”

[pacifiersboard]

(EM) = Edit Mode = You must use Edit Mode to correct or fix the error, because the engine either disallows the rule or otherwise does something wrong that you can correct.

[crockett36]

Krieghund has ruled in your favor. I’m glad bm mod fixes this. Let me say Shame on anyone who uses this trick. It does our community no good to have such nonsensical options and benefits. If China’s military occupied parts of Ukraine that were controlled by the invaders, it would be ww3.

I’m always looking out for the future of the game, introducing it to new players and flavoring it to pair with history. I’m agitating for change. Let us proceed with the match. Thanks to all for your assistance.

Btw my reasoning would revolve around the words Axis and warship. As G has not joined in an alliance against Russia, the Axis are not at war with Russia. Nor is a sub a warship unless Germany declares war. There is no axis versus allies until everyone is at war. The definition is evolving. Nuff said.

[Myygames]

@crockett36 J3-axis-amp-allies-myygames-x-vs-crockett36-low-luck-global-1940.2 (1).tsvg

Hi crockett, please make sure you are playing in Play-by-Email mode. I saw that you did R3 as local game, which is no problem because R had no combat. Nevertheless this deletes the email adresses in the game, I inserted them again.

Game History

Round: 3

    Research Technology - Japanese
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Changing PUs for Russians from 40 to 35
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 carrier, 5 infantry, 1 submarine and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 

    Combat Move - Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Hopei to Shensi
        1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Szechwan
        2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Anhwe to Szechwan
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
        3 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Burma
        2 infantry moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 38 Sea Zone to Burma
        1 submarine moved from 37 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Borneo to 43 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes
        2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to 20 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Borneo to 43 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra
        1 fighter moved from 42 Sea Zone to 62 Sea Zone
        1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone

    Combat - Japanese
        Battle in Sumatra
        Battle in Celebes
        Battle in Malaya
        Battle in 54 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
            ANZAC defend with 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
            Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Japanese
            Japanese win, taking Sumatra from Dutch, taking Celebes from Dutch, taking Malaya from UK_Pacific, taking 54 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
        Battle in Szechwan
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Chinese defend with 1 infantry
            Japanese win with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
        Battle in 55 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
            ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
            Japanese win with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer
        Battle in Yunnan
            Japanese attack with 1 artillery and 3 infantry
            Chinese defend with 1 infantry
            Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 1 artillery and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
        Battle in Burma
            Japanese attack with 3 fighters, 2 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers
            British defend with 2 infantry; ANZAC defend with 1 infantry; Chinese defend with 1 fighter
            Japanese win, taking Burma from UK_Pacific with 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 16
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 fighter
            Casualties for British: 2 infantry
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
        Battle in Shensi
            Japanese attack with 2 artilleries and 3 infantry
            Chinese defend with 1 infantry
            Japanese win, taking Shensi from Chinese with 2 artilleries and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
        Battle in 62 Sea Zone
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter
            ANZAC defend with 3 submarines and 1 transport
            3 submarines owned by the ANZAC submerged
            Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport

    Non Combat Move - Japanese
        1 fighter moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser moved from 42 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 carrier moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 55 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
        1 carrier moved from 42 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
        1 carrier moved from 42 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
        1 battleship and 1 destroyer moved from 42 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Burma to 41 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Burma to 38 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Burma to Kweichow
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Szechwan to Kweichow
        1 fighter moved from Kwangsi to Kweichow
        1 armour moved from Kwangtung to Yunnan
        1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
        2 bombers moved from Paulau Island to Kwangsi
        1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Shensi
        1 infantry moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan
        4 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
        1 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe
        2 fighters moved from Jehol to Japan
        1 aaGun, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 4 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Jehol to Manchuria
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Shantung to Manchuria
        1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
        1 carrier moved from 6 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
        1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 6 Sea Zone to Korea

    Place Units - Japanese
        1 armour and 2 infantry placed in Shantung
        1 artillery and 3 infantry placed in Japan
        1 carrier, 1 submarine and 1 transport placed in 6 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - Japanese
        Japanese collect 55 PUs; end with 55 PUs
        Objective Japanese 1 Trade With America: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 65 PUs
        Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 70 PUs

[Krieghund]

@gamerman01 said in L22 playoff, OOB Lowluck, crockett (L+30) vs myygames (X):

OOB I’m >90% sure the German sub does disrupt the Russian NO when Italy is at war with Russia. But it’s been a long time since I played OOB.

This is because
a) Russia is at war with Euro-Axis (Italy)
b) Italy and Germany are allied, because they are both at war with the UK
c) The NO rule says when the Soviet Union is at war in Europe (they are at war in Europe because at war with Italy), 125 has to be free of Axis warships. German sub is an Axis warship.

Weird because Russia is not directly at war with Germany, but according to the letter of the law here, Germany doesn’t have to be at war with Russia to disrupt the NO.

Yes, that’s correct. This NO represents Lend-Lease aid to the Soviet Union. It is intended to require cooperation between the Allied powers to keep it flowing. Whether or not Germany and the Soviet Union are at war, Germany is still raiding UK and US shipping, and thus interfering with the flow of Soviet aid, and it’s in the interest of those powers to stop it from doing so.

An Axis is warship is still an Axis warship, even if the owning power is not at war. If the intent were that Germany had to be at war to block the NO, it would say, “a warship belonging to a power with which the Soviet Union is at war”. or something to that effect.

[crockett36]

@krieghund thank you again for your service to the community!

[Myygames]

@krieghund thanks for your great insights!