There is no axis alliance against R. The axis have not fully formed. The Allies have not fully formed. Only Italy versus R. Just because it is common doesn’t make it legal or reasonable.
@crockett36 nothing personal BTW, I just think this is
@crockett36 a travesty
I have pm’d krieghund. He’s Larry’s rules guy.
@crockett36 I do not take this personally, no worries, its just a dispute over a rule that Needs clarification.
I habe reached out to @gamerman01 for carification.
The question, and pls correct me if i am wrong, is about the russia NO
„
When the Soviet Union Is at War in Europe:
IPCs if the convoy in sea zone 125 is free of Axis warships, Archangel is controlled by the Soviet Union, and
there are no units belonging to other Allied powers present in any territories originally controlled by the Soviet
Union. Theme: National prestige and access to Allied Lend-Lease material
„
My Play is declaring war with italy but Not with Germany, so russia is at war with I but Not G at R3. The question is whether the german sub in SZ125 negates the NO or not. Would be grat to geht advice here. Thanx in advance to gamerman for his comments.
Krieghund’s authority is much greater than mine, so that’s great if crockett is getting an answer from him, but
OOB I’m >90% sure the German sub does disrupt the Russian NO when Italy is at war with Russia. But it’s been a long time since I played OOB.
This is because
a) Russia is at war with Euro-Axis (Italy)
b) Italy and Germany are allied, because they are both at war with the UK
c) The NO rule says when the Soviet Union is at war in Europe (they are at war in Europe because at war with Italy), 125 has to be free of Axis warships. German sub is an Axis warship.
Weird because Russia is not directly at war with Germany, but according to the letter of the law here, Germany doesn’t have to be at war with Russia to disrupt the NO. Make sure with Krieghund, so my answer is basically useless except to say I think myygames is correct.
Note that in the Balanced Mod, Germany is barred from advancing into Russian territory in this manner without declaring war herself. But this isn’t balanced mod.
@gamerman01 said in L22 playoff, OOB Lowluck, crockett (L+30) vs myygames (X):
Krieghund’s authority is much greater than mine, so that’s great if crockett is getting an answer from him, but
OOB I’m >90% sure the German sub does disrupt the Russian NO when Italy is at war with Russia. But it’s been a long time since I played OOB.
This is because
a) Russia is at war with Euro-Axis (Italy)
b) Italy and Germany are allied, because they are both at war with the UK
c) The NO rule says when the Soviet Union is at war in Europe (they are at war in Europe because at war with Italy), 125 has to be free of Axis warships. German sub is an Axis warship.Weird because Russia is not directly at war with Germany, but according to the letter of the law here, Germany doesn’t have to be at war with Russia to disrupt the NO. Make sure with Krieghund, so my answer is basically useless except to say I think myygames is correct.
Note that in the Balanced Mod, Germany is barred from advancing into Russian territory in this manner without declaring war herself. But this isn’t balanced mod.
Thanks for your thoughts and appreciate you taking the time to help us here, gamerman!
@crockett36 Based on that I will edit russia back to 35 IPC (without the NO that is incorrectly assigned by TrippleA).
@myygames @crockett36 @gamerman01 @Krieghund
I saw your dispute by chance. At least it is also in the game notes:
“* (EM) If Russia is at war with Italy, but not with Germany, a German warship in sz125 will cancel Russia’s national objective (and same if at war with Germany but not Italy, and there is an Italian boat in sz125).”
(EM) = Edit Mode = You must use Edit Mode to correct or fix the error, because the engine either disallows the rule or otherwise does something wrong that you can correct.
Krieghund has ruled in your favor. I’m glad bm mod fixes this. Let me say Shame on anyone who uses this trick. It does our community no good to have such nonsensical options and benefits. If China’s military occupied parts of Ukraine that were controlled by the invaders, it would be ww3.
I’m always looking out for the future of the game, introducing it to new players and flavoring it to pair with history. I’m agitating for change. Let us proceed with the match. Thanks to all for your assistance.
Btw my reasoning would revolve around the words Axis and warship. As G has not joined in an alliance against Russia, the Axis are not at war with Russia. Nor is a sub a warship unless Germany declares war. There is no axis versus allies until everyone is at war. The definition is evolving. Nuff said.
@crockett36 J3-axis-amp-allies-myygames-x-vs-crockett36-low-luck-global-1940.2 (1).tsvg
Hi crockett, please make sure you are playing in Play-by-Email mode. I saw that you did R3 as local game, which is no problem because R had no combat. Nevertheless this deletes the email adresses in the game, I inserted them again.
Game History
Round: 3
Research Technology - Japanese
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Changing PUs for Russians from 40 to 35
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Purchase Units - Japanese
Japanese buy 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 carrier, 5 infantry, 1 submarine and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens;
Combat Move - Japanese
1 infantry moved from Hopei to Shensi
1 infantry moved from Kweichow to Szechwan
2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Kweichow to Shensi
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Anhwe to Szechwan
1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Hunan to Yunnan
1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
3 fighters and 4 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Burma
2 infantry moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 38 Sea Zone to Burma
1 submarine moved from 37 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Borneo to 43 Sea Zone
1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from 44 Sea Zone to Celebes
2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to 20 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Borneo to 43 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra
1 fighter moved from 42 Sea Zone to 62 Sea Zone
1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
1 battleship, 1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
Combat - Japanese
Battle in Sumatra
Battle in Celebes
Battle in Malaya
Battle in 54 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
ANZAC defend with 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the Japanese
Japanese win, taking Sumatra from Dutch, taking Celebes from Dutch, taking Malaya from UK_Pacific, taking 54 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 18
Casualties for ANZAC: 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
Battle in Szechwan
Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
Chinese defend with 1 infantry
Japanese win with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
Battle in 55 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber
ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer
Japanese win with 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer
Battle in Yunnan
Japanese attack with 1 artillery and 3 infantry
Chinese defend with 1 infantry
Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 1 artillery and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
Battle in Burma
Japanese attack with 3 fighters, 2 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers
British defend with 2 infantry; ANZAC defend with 1 infantry; Chinese defend with 1 fighter
Japanese win, taking Burma from UK_Pacific with 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 4 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 16
Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
Casualties for Chinese: 1 fighter
Casualties for British: 2 infantry
Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
Battle in Shensi
Japanese attack with 2 artilleries and 3 infantry
Chinese defend with 1 infantry
Japanese win, taking Shensi from Chinese with 2 artilleries and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
Battle in 62 Sea Zone
Japanese attack with 1 fighter
ANZAC defend with 3 submarines and 1 transport
3 submarines owned by the ANZAC submerged
Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport
Non Combat Move - Japanese
1 fighter moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 cruiser moved from 42 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 carrier moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 55 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
1 carrier moved from 42 Sea Zone to 38 Sea Zone
1 carrier moved from 42 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
1 battleship and 1 destroyer moved from 42 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Burma to 41 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Burma to 38 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Burma to Kweichow
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Szechwan to Kweichow
1 fighter moved from Kwangsi to Kweichow
1 armour moved from Kwangtung to Yunnan
1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
2 bombers moved from Paulau Island to Kwangsi
1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Shensi
1 infantry moved from Chahar to Suiyuyan
4 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
1 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe
2 fighters moved from Jehol to Japan
1 aaGun, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 4 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Jehol to Manchuria
1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Shantung to Manchuria
1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
1 carrier moved from 6 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
1 transport moved from 20 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
2 infantry moved from 6 Sea Zone to Korea
Place Units - Japanese
1 armour and 2 infantry placed in Shantung
1 artillery and 3 infantry placed in Japan
1 carrier, 1 submarine and 1 transport placed in 6 Sea Zone
Turn Complete - Japanese
Japanese collect 55 PUs; end with 55 PUs
Objective Japanese 1 Trade With America: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 65 PUs
Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 70 PUs
@gamerman01 said in L22 playoff, OOB Lowluck, crockett (L+30) vs myygames (X):
OOB I’m >90% sure the German sub does disrupt the Russian NO when Italy is at war with Russia. But it’s been a long time since I played OOB.
This is because
a) Russia is at war with Euro-Axis (Italy)
b) Italy and Germany are allied, because they are both at war with the UK
c) The NO rule says when the Soviet Union is at war in Europe (they are at war in Europe because at war with Italy), 125 has to be free of Axis warships. German sub is an Axis warship.Weird because Russia is not directly at war with Germany, but according to the letter of the law here, Germany doesn’t have to be at war with Russia to disrupt the NO.
Yes, that’s correct. This NO represents Lend-Lease aid to the Soviet Union. It is intended to require cooperation between the Allied powers to keep it flowing. Whether or not Germany and the Soviet Union are at war, Germany is still raiding UK and US shipping, and thus interfering with the flow of Soviet aid, and it’s in the interest of those powers to stop it from doing so.
An Axis is warship is still an Axis warship, even if the owning power is not at war. If the intent were that Germany had to be at war to block the NO, it would say, “a warship belonging to a power with which the Soviet Union is at war”. or something to that effect.
@krieghund thank you again for your service to the community!
@krieghund thanks for your great insights!
@crockett36 I3-axis-amp-allies-myygames-x-vs-crockett36-low-luck-global-1940.2.tsvg
Game History
Round: 3
Purchase Units - Italians
Italians buy 1 bomber and 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Combat Move - Italians
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
1 artillery, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 98 Sea Zone to Egypt
1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 mech_infantry moved from Alexandria to Egypt
1 bomber moved from Southern Italy to Iraq
1 mech_infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Belarus
Italians take Belarus from Russians
Combat - Italians
Strategic bombing raid in Iraq
British roll AA dice in Iraq : 1/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits
1 bomber killed by AA
Bombing raid in Iraq causes 0 damage total.
Battle in Egypt
Italians attack with 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
British defend with 1 artillery, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
Italians roll dice for 1 cruiser in Egypt, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,50 expected hits
Italians roll dice for 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Egypt, round 2 : 3/1 hits, 2,33 expected hits
British roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Egypt, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,67 expected hits
1 artillery owned by the British, 1 infantry owned by the British and 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Egypt
Italians win, taking Egypt from British with 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry
Casualties for British: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
Non Combat Move - Italians
1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Greece to 97 Sea Zone
1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 98 Sea Zone to Egypt
1 fighter moved from Alexandria to Greece
1 fighter moved from Egypt to Greece
1 armour moved from Greece to Romania
1 armour moved from Baltic States to Eastern Poland
1 artillery moved from Northern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
1 artillery moved from 97 Sea Zone to Greece
Place Units - Italians
1 bomber and 2 infantry placed in Southern Italy
1 infantry placed in Southern France
2 infantry placed in Northern Italy
Turn Complete - Italians
Italians collect 18 PUs; end with 18 PUs
Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 23 PUs
Objective Italians 2 Roman Empire: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 28 PUs
Combat Hit Differential Summary :
Italians regular : 1,17
British AA : 0,83
British regular : 0,33
@crockett36 G4-myygames-x-vs-crockett36-low-luck-global-1940.2.tsvg
Good catch in Alexandria ;-) I edited it to a fighter loss
Game History
Round: 4
Research Technology - Germans
Turning on Edit Mode
EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Alexandria: 1 fighter
EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Alexandria: 1 tactical_bomber
EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
Purchase Units - Germans
Germans buy 1 fighter and 10 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;
Politics - Germans
Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians
Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Axis To War With Russians: Changing Relationship for Germans and Russians from Neutrality to War
Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese
Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Chinese from Neutrality to War
Combat Move - Germans
1 bomber moved from Southern Italy to Iraq
1 armour moved from Romania to Bessarabia
Germans take Bessarabia from Russians
1 armour moved from Bessarabia to Eastern Poland
1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Western Ukraine
Germans take Western Ukraine from Russians
1 armour moved from Western Ukraine to Eastern Poland
1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Novgorod
Germans take Novgorod from Russians
1 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia
Germans take Karelia from Russians
1 infantry moved from Finland to Vyborg
Germans take Vyborg from Russians
Combat - Germans
Strategic bombing raid in Iraq
Bombing raid in Iraq rolls: 6 and causes: 6 damage to unit: factory_minor
Bombing raid in Iraq causes 6 damage total.
Non Combat Move - Germans
1 bomber moved from Iraq to Greece
1 tactical_bomber moved from Alexandria to Egypt
1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to Egypt
1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Italy to Eastern Poland
1 bomber moved from Southern Italy to Western Germany
1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Bessarabia
1 aaGun moved from Romania to Bessarabia
3 mech_infantrys moved from Romania to Belarus
1 aaGun, 6 armour, 1 artillery, 4 infantry and 9 mech_infantrys moved from Baltic States to Belarus
1 aaGun, 2 armour, 6 artilleries and 20 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Belarus
3 mech_infantrys moved from Poland to Belarus
2 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Romania
4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
1 aaGun and 4 infantry moved from Finland to Karelia
1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 108 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 110 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from France to Northern Italy
1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to Western Germany
1 artillery, 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 95 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 98 Sea Zone to Egypt
1 mech_infantry moved from Poland to Belarus
Place Units - Germans
1 fighter placed in Western Germany
10 mech_infantrys placed in Germany
Turn Complete - Germans
Germans collect 46 PUs; end with 47 PUs
Trigger Germans 4 Presence In Egypt: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 52 PUs
Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 57 PUs
Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 62 PUs
