Strategic Rockets (v3)

[sjelso]

@aftertaste V2 rockets were mobile.

“Following Operation Crossbow bombing, initial plans for launching from the massive underground Watten, Wizernes and Sottevast bunkers or from fixed pads such as near the Château du Molay[43] were dropped in favour of mobile launching.” (Wikipedia)

[insaneHoshi]

One thing to consider that may lessen the impact of a Strategic Rockets (to lessen the impacts of any buff) would be to subject them to interception from Jet Fighters (which has some historical justification).

The way that certain technology in this game partially counters other technology is something that I really like in this game, and doing this would be something similar.

[aftertaste]

Thanks to everyone for your input, it’s been very helpful. I’m going to take another crack at this…

Rocket Facilities cost 3/3, or (with Improved Construction) 2/2 or 6. I still think the facility should take two turns to build, but if others think it should only take one, there’s no reason it can’t just take one turn and cost 6 (5 with Improved Construction). Facilities can be built in any territory owned by the player that is in supply, have a max damage of 6, and have inherent AA.

The rockets themselves cost $1, and have all the usual abilities as described in the v3 rules. Facilities can fire one rocket, each player turn.

I’ve reduced the cost of the Facility from my original estimate and kept the cost of rockets very low to keep rockets a viable alternative to strategic bombers (thanks for the number crunching, @CaptainNapalm). I do accept that strategic bombers may be the better option though.

@sjelso You’re correct, they were, but they were more tactically mobile than strategically, as far as I understand, although I’m no expert. Maybe (as @Trig suggests) Rockets should be a type of unit, perhaps only available after the initial building of a Facility, but with no additional costs?

@insaneHoshi I like the idea of a technology countering the other, and there is certainly precedent, but when it comes to GW’36, I think Strategic Rockets means V2’s exclusively, and not V1’s, although I do see the merits of your suggestion.

[David '06]

Shouldn’t people be able to launch rockets from air bases? I was thinking a 4 IPP rocket base and a 2 IPP rocket. Also I think it is a really good Idea to have V-1 rockets, which are you can build when you have stage 2 tech for strat rockets. Thier cost is 3 IPPs, carpet bomb at a 8 @1 D12, and strat Bomb at 2 D6. The thing is, they could be intercepted by fighters normally and shot down by AA

[Linkler]

@david-06
V - 1 rocket
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech
Cost $2
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves via rail/ naval transport only
Can be intercepted/ shot down by AA

[David '06]

@linkler Didn’t V-1 rockets hold way more explosives than V-2s?

[Linkler]

@linkler
V - 2
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech and jet fighters
Cost $2
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves 1
Can be intercepted only by jet fighters

Optional rule: Limit 2 per turn

[David '06]

@linkler V-2’ maximum speed is 3,580 mph the jet fighters of that time can only go <600 mph

[Linkler]

@david-06
Good point - also just reading up on it apparently they were very expensive to build and I gather much more devastating than the v1s … somethings yet to consider there i see

[Linkler]

@linkler
Maybe they should be able to attack zone IPPs the same way subs attack convoys

[David '06]

@linkler But the navigation was measure with amount of fuel. The Germans would have to know exactly the time and place that the convoy would be passing.

[David '06]

@linkler I think this could be a better stat
V - 1 rocket
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech stage 1 and jet fighter stage 2
Cost $1
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves via rail/ naval transport only
Can be intercepted/ shot down by AA

V - 2
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech (since that’s what its for)
Cost $3
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Needs to be launched out of an airbase
Moves via rail/ naval transport only

[General 6 Stars]

@david-06 said in Strategic Rockets (v3):

@linkler I think this could be a better stat
V - 1 rocket
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech stage 1 and jet fighter stage 2
Cost $1
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves via rail/ naval transport only
Can be intercepted/ shot down by AA

V - 2
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech (since that’s what its for)
Cost $3
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Needs to be launched out of an airbase
Moves via rail/ naval transport only

V-2 should cost more and they can be launched from anywhere.

[Linkler]

@linkler how about this:
V - 1 rocket
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech
Cost $1
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ land zone IPP value
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves via rail/ naval transport only
Can be intercepted/ shot down by AA
Can be strategically bombed destroyed after 2 points of damage no inherent AA

[Linkler]

@linkler
V - 2
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech and jet fighters
Cost $2
Range 4
Attack 1 D6 vs/ land zone IPP value +1 modifier
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 3
Moves 1
Cannot be intercepted
Can be strategically bombed
destroyed if more than 3 damage
No inherent AA

[David '06]

@linkler for the V-1 tech you should need is:

1.strategic rockets stage 2
2.jet fighters stage 2

the V-1 used a pulsejet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argus_As_014
also, I think that the V-1 should not be able to be strategically bombed because of its size

[Linkler]

@david-06
Hey thanks for collaborating with me on this!
The level 2 techs thing you said makes sense for like historical reasons I see that just I’m not sure about it for playability reasons because every time we play the Germans have those techs to level 2 by 1939 for sure and it’s pretty early for rockets to start showing up…

The Allies did strategically bomb the rocket sites in WW2 from what ive read unless I’m mistaken about that, pretty sure though

I didn’t know that the Germans launched the v-2 s off airfields I though they just fired them from out in the bush kind of thing… did they use airfields to launch the v-1s as well? Just thinking we could add a modifier or extra range if launched from an airfield or something

[General 6 Stars]

For a description of the V-2 launch equipment and procedure, see Meillerwagen.
Following Operation Crossbow bombing, initial plans for launching from the massive underground Watten, Wizernes and Sottevast bunkers or from fixed pads such as near the Château du Molay[44] were dropped in favour of mobile launching. Eight main storage dumps were planned and four had been completed by July 1944 (the one at Mery-sur-Oise was begun in August 1943 and completed by February 1944).[45] The missile could be launched practically anywhere, roads running through forests being a particular favourite. The system was so mobile and small that only one Meillerwagen was ever caught in action by Allied aircraft, during the Operation Bodenplatte attack on 1 January 1945[46] near Lochem by a USAAF 4th Fighter Group aircraft, although Raymond Baxter described flying over a site during a launch and his wingman firing at the missile without hitting it.

It was estimated that a sustained rate of 350 V-2s could be launched per week, with 100 per day at maximum effort, given sufficient supply of the rockets.[47]

[David '06]

@linkler Yeah it was fun. They did though launched V-1s from ramps
@GEN-MANSTEIN thanks for the info
I think that this should be the final results based on the commentary

V - 1 rocket
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech stage 1 and jet fighter stage 2
Cost $1
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves via rail/ naval transport only
Can be intercepted/ shot down by AA

V - 2
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech
Cost $4
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves via rail/ naval transport only

V - 1 rocket
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech stage 3 and jet fighter stage 4
Cost $2
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves via rail/ naval transport only
Can be intercepted(but at a 2 for all fighters to stimulate that they can’t shot it down or it will explode)/ shot down by AA

[Delaja]

@david-06

Hi All,

As one of the designers of version 3, I can say that we deliberately set the damage-cost ratio higher, because in game play with the stats you propose, you could just invest in rockets to empty the capital of your enemies before attacking with land units. Whipe out London before entering for example. I would prefer a cost of 3, or 4 which makes it worth the buy versus 3,5 average damage in regular attacks, BUT in your calculations you are not adding in, the worth of all your income being used almost immediately against an important enemy target like the capital at the front each turn. Being able to suddenly bring a lot of units to the front with your full income is risky for the game balance. So the price needs to be higher. Rockets are a way of giving that extra punch where you desperately need it for strategical or tactical reasons. Because you want to take a certain land zone at any cost or because a certain land zone should produce as little units as possible or targeting other infrastructure to have your opponent invest in repairs. Limiting the number of builds per turn is a wise way to go. That would open up for lowering the price.
A) too low a price could potentially break the game
B) too high a price makes the units useless.
Under the conditions of the last post I read on this issue, I would say use a price of 4 or 5 if you can buy an unlimited amount of rockets to avoid overpowering them. Go lower if you limit the number of purchases of rockets. Find a balance that does not over- or underpower rockets. Looking forward to new calculations involving the extra dimension of reaching the front/enemy capital faster with rockets. 6 IPP was not my first choice, but 1 IPP is a game breaker if not limited.
With regards,
DSbb
HBG Designer of GW1936v3