@hms-serapis Germany can likely bomb London and London can likely bomb German held Paris. I saw the Germans strat bombing factories in Russia in Operation Skyhook but that was late game. you can also bomb railroads and docks/ports/airfields to halt lend lease delivery or help surround a city.
Strategic Rockets (v3)
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As the rules currently stand, the Strategic Rocket Technology could use some tweaking, I think. The required rolls are fine, but how rockets are implemented is a bit difficult to justify the IPC cost for, when for the same price you can have two Infantry, or a Medium Armour &c., which will probably achieve more in the game for the controlling player.
I propose that after achieving Strategic Rockets, a player should have the ability to build a Rocket Facility in any owned territory within Supply, which should take two turns to build, cost 6/6 IPC’s, but retains the usual attack abilities as currently described in the v3 rules. Improved Construction will reduce the cost to 5/5, or 12 for one turn construction.
Obviously the Facility cannot move, and the additional cost and time to construct the Facility is countered the fact that the Facility can fire one Rocket attack each player turn, instead of only once per game. The additional cost and time for construction is to balance it out a little.
The Facility has inherent AA, and has a Max Damage value of 3, the Facility must have no damage before it can fire an attack, but a player may repair any damage in the Production Phase and fire an attack in the same turn.
I’m not sure if there should be a limit to Rocket Facilities in a territory, but I’m not inclined to say so.
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@aftertaste I also think the current rules are a bit annoying, but it is a balance. If you make the rockets too cheap, they are just a effective way to blast a weaker opponent. If they are too expensive, then they just are never used.
I think that is done as a one shot model, the cost should be 3 or more likely 4. That way you might reap some benefits.
If done as a facility, I think a lot of testing would be needed to find the right cost though I think you are close. Another option would be to pay, say, 1 IPP for each attack
I would be cautious about the movement, as it is very restricting for nations who do not have home countries close to the battle, like the US or Japan. -
The designer has already said rockets will be reworked in V4. Until then, it is up to each of us to house rule them, or they will never be played, as they are a $6, single use, item.
Our group thought that a $6 rocket facility, that can produce up to 3 single use rockets per turn, at a cost of $2 per rocket, seemed reasonable. The facility can take 12 damage, and must be fully repaired to use.
The tech is a 9+ to research, so not easy. You have to build a facility, then build a rocket, then use a rocket, meaning rockets won’t just suddenly show up and start flying immediately. They will take a few turns.
Facility and individual rocket costs will put the average break even point at 4 rockets. So, after doing all the hard research, then the time it takes to build and use them, we are thinking there won’t be too much time at the end of the game for rockets to overwhelm their targets.
And the individual cost means they will always require an investment a turn before their use. And then, you are still hoping for a good die roll, as you may still lose money on a die roll of 1.
Thoughts?
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@captainnapalm I most definitely agree. I think that the single use unit works well, as it allows you to use them in spots other than home country, which was a huge deterrent in v2. I think a price of 4 could give the best result. You have a 50% chance of breaking even or winning, and 50% chance of losing. Compared the a strategic bomber, which has the same effective range, and rolls 2 dice at 3 times the price, and can get shot down, but is multi use; I think rockets could be a viable option. 3 might work, but it could also be too cheep, and I err on the side of caution.
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@trig Thank you for responding. Average damage of 1D6 is 3.5, so at $4 per rocket, you will never make your investment back. Are you advocating no rocket facility needed to build rockets? Because that would make the investment cheaper, initially, and a turn quicker. But you are still losing money, on average, with $4 rockets.
Let’s compare to a strategic bomber. Cost $12. Average life span of 4 strategic bombing raids. That’s 8D6. Average damage is $28. Even without buying a rocket facility, buying 6, $2 rockets, for $12, would average $21 damage.
So, $2 rockets are already a worse investment than strategic bombers. No need to make them $3 or $4. Then you add the cost of a $6 facility. And the limit of 3 rockets per turn. And I think we are already playing it safe, that rockets are not over powered.
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@captainnapalm
I was proposing no facility, as that limits the utility. 3 might be the best bet. I also prefer to try and tweak as little as possible, so fixing the cost seems to work well. -
@trig Trying to tweak as little as possible is a good policy. I agree. I think the rocket facility was brought up, in our group, as a possible way to stop rocket production. Damage or capture the rocket facility. Otherwise, they can just produce rockets at any of their home factories.
Would you propose a rocket use a production slot at a factory, then? Would you have any limits to how many rockets can be produced each turn?
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@captainnapalm I would have it like this
New unit-Strategic rocket
Vehicle class
Move: 0
Attack: carpet bombing (1@2)
Defense: N/A
Cost: 3
Once this unit attacks, this unit is eliminated after one round of combat.
This unit may engage in SBRs with one dice. It can neither be intercepted or shot down by AA fire.
This unit may only be moved by naval transport or Strategic Rail movement. -
@trig Sticking with a range of 3, I assume? Any limit to how many can be built, per turn?
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@aftertaste V2 rockets were mobile.
“Following Operation Crossbow bombing, initial plans for launching from the massive underground Watten, Wizernes and Sottevast bunkers or from fixed pads such as near the Château du Molay[43] were dropped in favour of mobile launching.” (Wikipedia)
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One thing to consider that may lessen the impact of a Strategic Rockets (to lessen the impacts of any buff) would be to subject them to interception from Jet Fighters (which has some historical justification).
The way that certain technology in this game partially counters other technology is something that I really like in this game, and doing this would be something similar.
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Thanks to everyone for your input, it’s been very helpful. I’m going to take another crack at this…
Rocket Facilities cost 3/3, or (with Improved Construction) 2/2 or 6. I still think the facility should take two turns to build, but if others think it should only take one, there’s no reason it can’t just take one turn and cost 6 (5 with Improved Construction). Facilities can be built in any territory owned by the player that is in supply, have a max damage of 6, and have inherent AA.
The rockets themselves cost $1, and have all the usual abilities as described in the v3 rules. Facilities can fire one rocket, each player turn.
I’ve reduced the cost of the Facility from my original estimate and kept the cost of rockets very low to keep rockets a viable alternative to strategic bombers (thanks for the number crunching, @CaptainNapalm). I do accept that strategic bombers may be the better option though.
@sjelso You’re correct, they were, but they were more tactically mobile than strategically, as far as I understand, although I’m no expert. Maybe (as @Trig suggests) Rockets should be a type of unit, perhaps only available after the initial building of a Facility, but with no additional costs?
@insaneHoshi I like the idea of a technology countering the other, and there is certainly precedent, but when it comes to GW’36, I think Strategic Rockets means V2’s exclusively, and not V1’s, although I do see the merits of your suggestion.
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Shouldn’t people be able to launch rockets from air bases? I was thinking a 4 IPP rocket base and a 2 IPP rocket. Also I think it is a really good Idea to have V-1 rockets, which are you can build when you have stage 2 tech for strat rockets. Thier cost is 3 IPPs, carpet bomb at a 8 @1 D12, and strat Bomb at 2 D6. The thing is, they could be intercepted by fighters normally and shot down by AA
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@david-06
V - 1 rocket
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech
Cost $2
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves via rail/ naval transport only
Can be intercepted/ shot down by AA -
@linkler Didn’t V-1 rockets hold way more explosives than V-2s?
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@linkler
V - 2
Vehicle class
Single use
Req. strategic rockets tech and jet fighters
Cost $2
Range 3
Attack 1 D6 vs/ facilties
Carpet bomb 1 D12 @ 2
Moves 1
Can be intercepted only by jet fightersOptional rule: Limit 2 per turn
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@linkler V-2’ maximum speed is 3,580 mph the jet fighters of that time can only go <600 mph
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@david-06
Good point - also just reading up on it apparently they were very expensive to build and I gather much more devastating than the v1s … somethings yet to consider there i see -
@linkler
Maybe they should be able to attack zone IPPs the same way subs attack convoys -
@linkler But the navigation was measure with amount of fuel. The Germans would have to know exactly the time and place that the convoy would be passing.
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