What I didn’t like was he was talking about future add ons to this game and such where you would and should just focus on the main game first and get it out there and then maybe start a expansion but only down the road.
Then the last e mail said testing s simpler rule adjustment for game. Bs get the game out first then adjust your rule versions after you got the product out. WT$
@GEN-MANSTEIN Literally everything he has said from day one was like that. Grandiose plans, sprawling design, tons of pieces that arent even part of gameplay, decorations.
Rather than even getting mad at him, I’m a bit mad at myself, and even madder at all the backers who are like well great progress, this that looks great, still hopeful. Its just sad…I can’t say for certain whats been done or if anything will ever be released but its really just caveat emptor (buyer beware) and “if it sounds too good to be true…”
just send the backers the god damn files. i can print the board myself, i can print the rules myself, and i can probably paint some pieces to suit my purposes. i hate this crap.
@IWillNeverGrowUp Fraud requires specific intent to defraud, I’m not sure what he thinks he can accomplish given the money and time. From day -100, its been “everything is mostly finished” except nothing. He has mysterious creators and developers and an entire team (him), and he did expend some effforts to create prototypes rules art and maps but this project is WAY beyond the scope of 100k and 1 person in terms of what was promised and thats just a lesson about throwing your money away.
There have been like 3 “generations” of game projects that have been pitched, funded, developed from a rough idea, printed and shipped since this one started. It can be done, but only if you are dedicated and know what you are doing.
I won’t call fraud as we don’t know that there is intent. The lack of proper communication and the “Ready to go!” followed by “Still play testing/developing/finishing up” could just be a lack of experience. I can’t say with certainty.
I’ve held off commenting for a long time as a designer and publisher myself. I do know what it takes to get these things out there. From what I’ve seen, this could be done for the money raised, even with a 1 person show. However, like you said, you need to know what you’re doing and it would be very tight (money wise) and could potentially lose money if there are any mis-steps (shipping costs have gone up dramatically over the past 2 years for example).
I didn’t back this one because it was clear (to me) from the start that there was a lack of understanding of both the publishing aspect (process, costs, work-flow) and how a Kickstarter campaign works (see the mess of the pledge levels, for an extreme example).
I started work on my own Vietnam game in 2008 and just released it (via Print on Demand) this summer. I wouldn’t have even considered going to Kickstarter if it were still in the development stage. Perhaps I should do a Kickstarter to do a complete manufacturing run with all the bells and whistles!
@seancb Its called kickstarter, not crowdsourcer. All of us around here potentially have have design skills, game experience, and passion. We don’t have injection molds, art software, printing and publishing experience for paper and cardboard product–I’ve designed several games but the problem isnt creating the idea its about creating and executing the final product.
@IWillNeverGrowUp It makes kickstarter feel like the other “give me something for free” sites. I’ve pledged $1 to games I dont even like–many of the HUGELY successful games have hideous artwork, lame gameplay, silly gimmicks, and cheeze ideas but when you actually watch people who know what they’re doing give updates, they have a plan, they have a process, they dont make very many excuses and ASK to be held accountable when they dissappoint, which is exactly how I approach…my work.
@IWillNeverGrowUp It makes kickstarter feel like the other “give me something for free” sites. I’ve pledged $1 to games I dont even like–many of the HUGELY successful games have hideous artwork, lame gameplay, silly gimmicks, and cheeze ideas but when you actually watch people who know what they’re doing give updates, they have a plan, they have a process, they dont make very many excuses and ASK to be held accountable when they dissappoint, which is exactly how I approach…my work.
I’ve had the opposite experience with the 100+ games I’ve backed through Kickstarter (not just $1 backing, but full pledges) … lots of great game play, amazing artwork and excellent execution. It requires some research on the part of the backer to know what they’re getting in to … to date I’ve only been burned twice out of 100+; once by a big publisher to the tune of around $300 (Robotech RPG Tactics from Palladium) and once by a small/new publisher for $40ish (Dwarves in Trouble by HEX Games).
That said, yes … a professional will have a developed game, mostly finished art (if not finished), proper updates and plans in place and a high degree of communication with their backers (even if late, I like to know what’s happening and not get excuses).
I’ve designed several games but the problem isnt creating the idea its about creating and executing the final product.
Execution is the biggest, most difficult and most expensive, part of producing a game! It’s where many fall flat.
@taamvan you’re missing the point. he can send the backers the files which i assume are electronic in nature and we can just roll on down to kinkos and print the stuff i have tons of pieces from games or i can just buy them elsewhere or paint some of my old ones.
i have old helicopters from Fortress America.
I did overstate that a bit–many of the projects are great, I’m just surprised sometimes at what sells a game these days (social media involvement, slick manga style art, tons of greebly feelies, wave after wave of milestones and expansions and more and more). And most of the board-game projects do produce a quality product, Zombicide, that dino game, kittens all made millions and did exactly what they said they would do. It is the go-to place for the publishing model which has always been wonky (even Steve Jackson games doesnt really make much money and he has many successful projects for 30 years…and is a great guy).
@seancb well yeah we could but most of us have created modded/kitbashed versions of our favorite games without taking a dollar and they’re better than something that doesnt exist in any playable form anyways. Alot of people backed this just to get the pile of new promised pieces, which is odd to me because like you, I have FA x2, AxA x 10, Ikusa, on and on and on…
I didnt bother to read his exegis but as I’ve told Eric straight, AxA Global took 2 reprints, 4 rules runs, and 10 years of playtesting to get pretty close to not-broken. Now make a longer, more complex game with imbalanced forces? No way.
@seancb well yeah we could but most of us have created modded/kitbashed versions of our favorite games without taking a dollar and they’re better than something that doesnt exist in any playable form anyways. Alot of people backed this just to get the pile of new promised pieces, which is odd to me because like you, I have FA x2, AxA x 10, Ikusa, on and on and on…
I didnt bother to read his exegis but as I’ve told Eric straight, AxA Global took 2 reprints, 4 rules runs, and 10 years of playtesting to get pretty close to not-broken. Now make a longer, more complex game with imbalanced forces? No way.
Well I got it for everything in game. I gotta go with taamvan on this based mostly on what he said.
Ya seancb I get where your coming from too. If u get the original file for map and such I know I could make most changes if need be to the map and charts. I wouldn’t have a problem if my money was sent back and then I’d use the money to buy a printed map and charts.
But most can’t do that
Just went to kick starter site for this game and all comments and such have been removed. Nothing comes up.
@GEN-MANSTEIN said in Dun-zo:
Just went to kick starter site for this game and all comments and such have been removed. Nothing comes up.
Still there for me. Must’ve been a glitch? I know that the content creator cannot remove or change anything in the campaign once it’s completed except for the header image, create new updates and change the link at the top of the page so if anything is gone it’s a Kickstarter server error.
Ya. Can see it now on another computer.
