WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion

[trulpen]

@axis-dominion said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

Still no revised tech? I really love the idea of tech, but needs to be revised. Tech played a big role in the real war, and I already know Adam will say well that’s already reflected in the increased income as you conquer more, but I have to say I would really love for tech to be revisited and revised to make it a viable and fun system.

Me too!

I actually worked together with @Pejon_88 a year ago on a different system for tech that I believe has quite some potential. One of the basic ideas was that there’s be a new structure, namely research facilities (small) and complex (big).

We tried out a few different routes, but never hit the endpoint of satisfaction and just put it on ice for a while. Maybe I should dust it off and give it a go? Would be interesting to hear others feedback on it.

[axis-dominion]

@trulpen said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@axis-dominion said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

Still no revised tech? I really love the idea of tech, but needs to be revised. Tech played a big role in the real war, and I already know Adam will say well that’s already reflected in the increased income as you conquer more, but I have to say I would really love for tech to be revisited and revised to make it a viable and fun system.

Me too!

I actually worked together with @Pejon_88 a year ago on a different system for tech that I believe has quite some potential. One of the basic ideas was that there’s be a new structure, namely research facilities (small) and complex (big).

We tried out a few different routes, but never hit the endpoint of satisfaction and just put it on ice for a while. Maybe I should dust it off and give it a go? Would be interesting to hear others feedback on it.

yes go for it!

[CaptainNapalm]

@regularkid said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@axis-dominion yah, i’ve never really been a tech guy for A&A tbh. But I definitely think it could be a worthwhile pursuit as a mod to PTV, if someone else has good ideas for a tech tree.

I’ve never been a tech guy, either. Because it’s always been an expensive, random, gamble, and I want to win with strategy, and minimize random luck. I don’t want to try for advanced artillery, and get improved shipyards, instead. That being said, unless we are playing low luck, we face random chance, every battle, every game. We take that chance, because we like the odds versus payoff. TECH IS FUN! If done right, which is apparently difficult, as I’ve never seen it, it could be a great improvement to the game!

I’ll leave it to those more creative than I to debate WHICH tech should be in the game, but I want to weigh in on HOW tech should be developed in the game.

There are two systems, that I’ve seen, that got close enough for me to consider investing in tech. A&A 50th Anniversary Edition has expensive, random, tech tokens(die rolls), but if you miss, you keep your token(s), and roll each round, until successful. Global War 1936 has inexpensive, non-random tech, but a missed roll is a complete loss.

Combining these two, I can imagine a tech system that I would want to invest in:
Inexpensive - GW36, $2, rather than 50th, $5
Non-random - GW36, I chose the tech I want, and invest in THAT tech.
Return on investment - “If we aren’t winning, we are learning.” My proposal would be an improved chance at success, each successive round, following a failure. One die pip more likely to succeed, perhaps. The 50th system, of carrying your token over each round, until successful, would also work for me.

I also like that GW36 requires a series of successful rolls, to achieve the new tech. I don’t want to lose my Japanese navy, because, in one round, the US got super subs, jet fighters, and heavy bombers.

For those unfamiliar with Global War 1936, I’m attaching a picture of one of their tech charts. You can see they use a 12 sided die, but I don’t think that’s required. You’ll also see that some tech requires better die rolls for success. I like this, as I imagine it next to impossible to evenly balance a dozen technology breakthroughs, covering all the varying aspects of the game. Just make it more difficult to get a successful breakthrough on the more powerful tech.

I look forward to everyone’s feedback!

[AndrewAAGamer]

I also have never been a Tech guy for the same reasoning. Tech just makes the game more random and makes it more luck based than strategy based. I would be against Tech as a mandatory requirement but okay with optional so those that do want to use Tech can.

For any Tech I would ask for two requirements: 1) They do not go into effect until the Turn after they are discovered. 2) They are not overwhelming. They should at most provide a small advantage and never a big advantage.

[Amon-Sul]

u can play tech differently. like each side has 1 tech to choose, or each nation, or every few turns u get one tech.

or u can fix it, like u pay some money and u get tech for sure.

tech is a bonus option so all the rules can arrange, and it does not have to be random luck thing at all

[AndrewAAGamer]

@Amon-Sul
I like that idea of picking or buying instead of rolling. It should still not go into effect till the following Turn you get it.

[Amon-Sul]

@AndrewAAGamer said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@Amon-Sul
I like that idea of picking or buying instead of rolling. It should still not go into effect till the following Turn you get it.

that can all be arranged by mutual agreement

[General 6 Stars]

Yes definitely a few ways to go. We play based on random ness. After you play the same game all the time it gets scripted.
We use the 10 tech chart. Can buy token for 5 icps. Can get 2 free tokens through event cards. Can get 1 free tech through event cards. Can steal a enemy tech through event cards.
Roll a 6 breakthrough. Then roll a d10 for your tech on chart. Not all techs good for you. If you have 1-5 tokens and you roll 5 dice and get 5 6’s you only receive 1 tech and lose all tokens. Keeps tech under control plus the techs on chart are tweaked to being not to powerful.
Here’s the magnetic chart we use.

We have had 16 techs in game and doesn’t throw off balance. Most games there’s only 5-8 techs and most don’t help. At least it gives Russia a chance for a few good ones without buying if u don’t. But mostly they don’t get any.

We like the random ness based on in any war there’s many different things that can go wrong or u get a bit of a advantage at times.

As mentioned yes you could give each country a tech or a special weapon based on time of war for each turn but then over time gets scripted. IMO.

[CaptainNapalm]

@AndrewAAGamer said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@Amon-Sul
I like that idea of picking or buying instead of rolling. It should still not go into effect till the following Turn you get it.

Picking, good.
Following turn, good.
Buying, bad. This is illogical for technological research advancement, for one thing. But for game play, it is bad because it makes tech subject to the same idealization as unit purchases, and the ideal J1 attack, for example. “If playing X country, you should buy Y tech, on round Z.” Not fun.

[regularkid]

hey ,if there is wide consensus on a particular tech tree, I’d be happy to try to implement it for you guys as a game option

[Amon-Sul]

yeah, combo mode seems great

you get 1 tech, but u dont pick, u roll, and u get what u get.
or u can maybe choose to which nation u ll give it.

or each nation rolls randomly one tech etc

pretty cool

[General 6 Stars]

Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

[regularkid]

Hey, all. WW2 Path Victory version 2.0 is now available for download/update on the TripleA download maps page. Here is a list of the substantive changes:

-Corrected objectives panel with correct territory and sea zone names.
-Changed PU marker on Central America to reflect actual value.
-Added German mech to Austria.
-Added two TrueNeutral infantry to Switzerland.
-Removed British infantry from United Kingdom.
-Moved Japanese marine from Japan to Caroline Islands.
-Added victory city to Central United States.
-Fixed Americans starting income to match starting production.
-Supplemented discussion of rules in Game Notes.
-Fix connections between territories.
-Fixed Siberia factory bug to ensure destruction upon capture.
-Fixed guerrilla spawning in Honan.

Please note that downloading the updated map will not affect playability of your existing saves.

[Amon-Sul]

@SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

[trulpen]

Does chinese guerilla spam in northern Manchuria?

[Adam514]

@trulpen Nope.

[trulpen]

Thanks! Just wanted to be sure, since there are conflicting attributes at play.

[General 6 Stars]

@Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

@Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

I’ll get back to u on this. Out of town I’ll try to answer in a bit when I have time.
These are called National Advantages. Not NOs.

[General 6 Stars]

@Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

D12 will have to convert. Some can’t use based on d6 and 16% more hit to strong but can be worked out with maybe some multi pieces like 2 each.
Russia

1. Spa AD5 in all terr. Now
2. Promote a 2nd tank to a guard AD@7
   Russia gets 1 rank per turn in game already
3. Move 2 IC 1 time in game. Plus build each +1 more piece.
4. Place an Inf on any ussr starting terr per turn
5. Same as tank promote 1 inf A3D5
6. US can buy a mech, spa or art end of there turn. Place at a ussr ic right away

UK

1. All aa guns D +1
2. US uses your pieces in combat only 1 time
3. Tac/Div A+1 against surfaces subs. FS
4. Figs move 5 more from a oil derrick in Sudan, Trans Jordan and Iran
5. Place 3 frenchies in a France once liberated
6. Place 1 Inf at each IC per turn

US

1. Place an AB At each that doesn’t have at start of game.
2. Destroyer A@4 AD@1 bonus aa plane kill
3. Build 3 marines a turn instead of 2
4. Inf move 2 and can blitz
5. AC move 3
6. H bombers A5@3 one round only D@3 DF@2
   SBR 1d6 +3 starting on turn 3.

Ger

1. UK US pays icp each turn for every sub in Atlantic
2. All art D@6 in all Ger terr only
3. Tanks move 1 in non combat if they win a battle for terr
4. Roll 3d6 s and icp money goes towards a naval buy only one time in game
5. Tac/Div now can SNR 1d6 +1
6. Inf D@5 on amph landongs first round only

Japan

1. Destroyers can carry 1 inf combat or non
2. Subs A@6
3. Place an AB at each island that doesn’t have one at start of game
4. Your Transports can do 2 attacks same turn but can only use same ground units on first attack
5. All Inf D+1 on islands and homeland
6. Inf only attacking A+1 first round only

Italy

1. Place 1 BB in Rome port at start of game one time only
2. All inf in Italian terr only A+1
3. All inf in Italian terr only D+1
4. Germany can buy 2 units and place at a Italian ic
5. Receive 5 icps if no allies ships in Med includes subs
6. Ger can but 2 Italian pieces and place at a Italian ic

Well some have a few more words to them but loading this from a cell phone. Any questions ask. With D12 gives u more flexibility

You roll for 2 of these for each country at start of game only. U could roll for 1 then roll for another in a different turn. Whole idea is to change up the game at start so u have to change your buys a bit and do different early moves.

[Amon-Sul]

@SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@Amon-Sul said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

@SS-GEN said in WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion:

Here is another way to go. Each country also in my game can roll 2d6 for 2 National advantages to get at start of game and can use the whole game. This gives one side or country a bit of an advantage and now game changes a bit based on what u got and turn 1 will change your buys a bit. If you don’t want tech u could go this way and get a better piece and or combine them per turn based on time frame in war when each country had it and if they did.
As far as picking a tech or weapon I don’t agree only based on the countries will always pick the best one they have. You could add to these lists and have roll for 1 start then roll for one more on turn 3 or whatever. Many options here. Or you can have 1-3 tech tree or charts and u can pick one of the 3 charts but then u have to roll for it. Here’s our NA chart.

Can U please elaborate all this bonuses (NOs), what do they give ?

D12 will have to convert. Some can’t use based on d6 and 16% more hit to strong but can be worked out with maybe some multi pieces like 2 each.
Russia

1. Spa AD5 in all terr. Now
2. Promote a 2nd tank to a guard AD@7
   Russia gets 1 rank per turn in game already
3. Move 2 IC 1 time in game. Plus build each +1 more piece.
4. Place an Inf on any ussr starting terr per turn
5. Same as tank promote 1 inf A3D5
6. US can buy a mech, spa or art end of there turn. Place at a ussr ic right away

UK

1. All aa guns D +1
2. US uses your pieces in combat only 1 time
3. Tac/Div A+1 against surfaces subs. FS
4. Figs move 5 more from a oil derrick in Sudan, Trans Jordan and Iran
5. Place 3 frenchies in a France once liberated
6. Place 1 Inf at each IC per turn

US

1. Place an AB At each that doesn’t have at start of game.
2. Destroyer A@4 AD@1 bonus aa plane kill
3. Build 3 marines a turn instead of 2
4. Inf move 2 and can blitz
5. AC move 3
6. H bombers A5@3 one round only D@3 DF@2
   SBR 1d6 +3 starting on turn 3.

Ger

1. UK US pays icp each turn for every sub in Atlantic
2. All art D@6 in all Ger terr only
3. Tanks move 1 in non combat if they win a battle for terr
4. Roll 3d6 s and icp money goes towards a naval buy only one time in game
5. Tac/Div now can SNR 1d6 +1
6. Inf D@5 on amph landongs first round only

Japan

1. Destroyers can carry 1 inf combat or non
2. Subs A@6
3. Place an AB at each island that doesn’t have one at start of game
4. Your Transports can do 2 attacks same turn but can only use same ground units on first attack
5. All Inf D+1 on islands and homeland
6. Inf only attacking A+1 first round only

Italy

1. Place 1 BB in Rome port at start of game one time only
2. All inf in Italian terr only A+1
3. All inf in Italian terr only D+1
4. Germany can buy 2 units and place at a Italian ic
5. Receive 5 icps if no allies ships in Med includes subs
6. Ger can but 2 Italian pieces and place at a Italian ic

Well some have a few more words to them but loading this from a cell phone. Any questions ask. With D12 gives u more flexibility

They remember me much on Axis and Allies revised. I like it.