KBF

[Jennifer]

Yes.  Not really a problem I have run into so far with Germany however.  The whole point of the submarines is to add to the German fleet’s attack and keep the British and Americans at bay.

The cruisers, on the other hand, are more used to help take and hold Karelia/Scandinavia from the German sea zone, not so much offensive, but defensive.

Idea there is that Italy is pounding Caucasus with her cruisers and Germany is pounding Karelia with her cruisers.  No matter what Russia does, she has units getting pounded unless she builds only in Moscow.

[TG Moses VI]

So far I’ve found a 100% navy purchase for Germany G1 works splendidly.

6 Submarines
3 Cruisers

Whatever…

I find this to be a very incorrect purchase by the German player.  Why?  Because while naval units are perfectly good units in their own right, they do not accomplish the fundamental aspect of the Axis battle plan: Capturing Territories.  Cruisers and submarines do not win you IPCs, tanks and infantry do.

If I was the Allied player, my simplest answer would be to counter your build.  And as long as we’re trading units, I’ll win because I can replace those units easier.

By going naval you’ve negated UK, but at the risk of losing Eastern Europe.  Which is a trade I’d gladly take if I was the Allies.  The only time a German naval build would work is if you could place UK at an economic disadvantage because of it.  In which case, neutralizing the German navy would require the Allies to take their eyes off of Italy, which would then proceed to take Africa.  However, because Germany is placing naval units in the Baltic Sea, which is nowhere close the Mediterranean, the American player can still quite easily funnel troops into Africa.

In real life, the Germans actually ‘won’ the Battle of the Atlantic because they imposed a much greater economic penalty on the Allies than the costs of maintaining a U-boat fleet.  Unfortunately, A&A does not allow this option.

[Imperious Leader]

I think she was intending on playing a long game by setting up a German naval presence on G1 and then all land after that.

Similar to the buy a CV in Baltic in Revised. Its an insurance policy for keeping the fleet in being a few more turns.

Of course she would be buying Infantry, art and tanks in proper ratios latter.

[TG Moses VI]

I still don’t like it.  The play may faze a novice, but against competent Allied players, I don’t see this gambit working.  The first and foremost strategy of the Anglo-Americans is to distract the Germans from Russia as much as possible.  Here, it looks like you’re doing that job for the Allied player.  The Russians now have time to stack the front.

I base my experience off the original Axis and Allies.  I dunno, maybe there’s a National Objective that rewards the German player by putting cruisers in the water.

[a44bigdog]

Russia will have a very hard time stacking the front with two of its IC territories being hammered by naval bombardment every turn.

[TG Moses VI]

I am much more worried about 7 extra tanks parked outside of Karelia than 3 cruisers.

[Imperious Leader]

yea me too. threes vs twos and produced in equal quantities. With the NO’s and 1941…unstoppable.

[Cowboybob]

@a44bigdog:

Russia will have a very hard time stacking the front with two of its IC territories being hammered by naval bombardment every turn.

It is under my immpresion that BB and CA can only Bombard when you are landing troops from a Transport.
Please do correct me if im wrong.

[jeffdestroyer]

correct.  One BB or CA can attack for every land unit that is making an amphib. landing.

ie  2 INF, 1 Art could be supported by 3  BB’s or CA’s in the same sz for the 1st round of combat.

[Cowboybob]

@jeffdestroyer:

correct.  One BB or CA can attack for every land unit that is making an amphib. landing.

ie  2 INF, 1 Art could be supported by 3  BB’s or CA’s in the same sz for the 1st round of combat.

ut can they Bombard when you are not landing units?

[jeffdestroyer]

NO

[cond1024]

I have used a KBF or at least a focus on Britian first strategy to be successful in revised to counter the KGF strat, but have yet to try it on AA50.  How it works is on G1 build naval units enough to destroy the brit navy once.  After that all other german purchases are against Russia.  How the strat works (worked well in revised) is that all axis nations do a run on Brit land, except of course of E/W canada (out of reach and tough to maintain).  The Axis need to take over every bit of UK land, which after turn 3 should be able.  At somepoint during the first three rounds Germany attacks the brit fleet with every piece of naval equipement and plane it has thereby hopefully wiping out the brit navy.  With her navy gone and her lands gone (only bring in 15 IPC) it makes it difficult for Britain to rebuild, unless America diverts attention from a KGF strat to retake all of these brit lands, thereby buying time for the axis to take on Russia.  The remaining IPC that Britian has can be further reduced by German Industrial bombing.

By focusing G1 buys on England it does allow Russia an extra turn to build, but this can be countered later by the fact that Japan, Germany and now Italy can all attack Russia.

[tin_snips]

i tried strategic boming on a reduced IPC UK last night, and it worked like a charm

[Jennifer]

A German threat in this game at least leaves open the possibility of holding Norway/Finland which is not exactly a pair of territories Germany wants to give away in this game.  Also, it leaves open the possibility of shoving troops into Karelia all that much faster or even threatening (not actually doing it) Operation Sea Lion.

Also, as was mentioned, two fleets beating the snot out of Russia’s army with off shores has got to be psychologically daunting.

[Guest]

@cond1024:

I have used a KBF or at least a focus on Britian first strategy to be successful in revised to counter the KGF strat, but have yet to try it on AA50.  How it works is on G1 build naval units enough to destroy the brit navy once.  After that all other german purchases are against Russia.  How the strat works (worked well in revised) is that all axis nations do a run on Brit land, except of course of E/W canada (out of reach and tough to maintain).  The Axis need to take over every bit of UK land, which after turn 3 should be able.  At somepoint during the first three rounds Germany attacks the brit fleet with every piece of naval equipement and plane it has thereby hopefully wiping out the brit navy.  With her navy gone and her lands gone (only bring in 15 IPC) it makes it difficult for Britain to rebuild, unless America diverts attention from a KGF strat to retake all of these brit lands, thereby buying time for the axis to take on Russia.  The remaining IPC that Britian has can be further reduced by German Industrial bombing.

By focusing G1 buys on England it does allow Russia an extra turn to build, but this can be countered later by the fact that Japan, Germany and now Italy can all attack Russia.

That strategy actually can work if you send Japanese ships to Germany when done in the Pacific… the Allies will sink the German fleet, just in time for the Japanese to enter the med  8-)

[gamerman01]

Well, this game has been out over a year now, and in all my playing experience it is very important for Germany to at least buy a carrier in round one.

As Jen said, Norway and Finland are extremely important in this game.  In 1942 scenario, it is very easy for Russia to get the big NO every turn if Norway and Finland are already owned by the Allies.  Plus, it’s 5 IPC’s per turn just for the base value.  It’s also important to keep the Allies out of zone 5 for as long as possible.  There are way too many key territories that can be invaded from Z5 to be conceding zone 5 early.

The days of Germany strictly buying air and land are over.

[naturesprank]

Buying a carrier and some other boats (usaually dd + tr) in G1 seems to be the default move in our gaming group. It is an effective way to shuttle men to Kar, protect Fr and Scan, and threaten any UK1 boat builds. This does ease pressure on Rus quite a bit knowing that Ger ground units won’t be marching on them, so Rus needs to be aggressive in capturing and holding tt Ger needs for its NO.

Meanwhile, an effective counter to the G1 fleet build may be to focus on ITA with UK air. By taking out the Med fleet, ITA and GER are denied Africa and NO income. Without its fleet, ITA can not assail Cau, either, which allows Rus to concentrate on GER while the Anglos get ramped up.

These forums offer so many good ideas and strategies. I hope I have time to try them all!