Techs

[Imperious Leader]

Yea come on Romulus you gotta be kidding? This game is the best game they ever put out. No more micro map and cheap cardboard tokens, and lots of stuff. How can anybody possible complain?

The rules have the most historical feel of any of the other games. Some of the bugs like transports blowing up battleships and taken as combat loses AS IF they are human shields is now over.

The only thing they left out of major importance was defender retreats.

[squirecam]

@Krieghund:

@Romulus:

This disappoint me. I believe that Craig A Yope and Kreighund are even more disappointed than me.

I am most assuredly not disappointed in this game.  What have I said that would give you that idea?  There are certain minor aspects that disappoint me, such as the Italian minis, but overall I’m quite pleased.

@Romulus:

I am wondering how Larry Harris felt all this, I suppose that also him is disappointed.

From Larry’s site:

I will tell you this … although I did not get everything I wanted in this game (due to the simple realities of cost, etc) I’m one happy camper when it comes to the final results of AA50.

Count me in as well.  :-D

[axis_roll]

@Imperious:

The only thing they left out of major importance was defender retreats.

That would really change the game play mechanics and involve more changes to A&A then I think they were ready to make.

[squirecam]

@Imperious:

Well if technology is optional, then the Heavy Bomber thing has no impact as a ‘game breaker’

but also remember the thread is about technology for AA50 and thats it.

Personally Mechanized infantry technology is a joke. That should have been a new unit included in the game. To motorize your infantry is a matter of economics rather than technology. Trucks and armored cars were invented in WW1. It should be a new unit built at the choice of any player

Also, the artillery technology is like a contrived ‘filler’ technology. Where does the idea that your Artillery got better, so they boost 2 Infantry rather than one? What/Where was this pulled out from?

I like alot of the new techs. Not overpowering, but provides a nice bonus for developing it. The advanced art being a favorite.

[Romulus]

@Krieghund:

@Romulus:

This disappoint me. I believe that Craig A Yope and Kreighund are even more disappointed than me.

I am most assuredly not disappointed in this game.  What have I said that would give you that idea?  There are certain minor aspects that disappoint me, such as the Italian minis, but overall I’m quite pleased.

Same things that also disappoint me but I am not involved in the LHTR process. I supposed that you could have been more disappointed than me. Excuse me, I apologize for the wrong supposition.

I am not only a customer of AH (I own all the A&A Games) I am a supporter of A&A. A fan.

I have pre-ordered the game. I am eagerly awaiting for it. I am greedly reading everywhere trying to collect as more info is possible. A lot of things I have read are interesting and I like. Few things I not like.

@Imperious:

Yea come on Romulus you gotta be kidding? This game is the best game they ever put out. No more micro map and cheap cardboard tokens, and lots of stuff. How can anybody possible complain?

The rules have the most historical feel of any of the other games. Some of the bugs like transports blowing up battleships and taken as combat loses AS IF they are human shields is now over.

The only thing they left out of major importance was defender retreats.

Yes IL, those things are really great! The map I like very much. The addiction of Italy. The bonus objectives. The teo setup. The great number of miniatures.

I am only doubtful on some minor aspects, as I said. Maybe I am too much interested in the details and I am no looking at the big picture. Maybe I have to calm down and wait!

I apologize, I do not want to create problems but I am like a man that is waiting for is wife giving birth to his son!

[Krieghund]

@squirecam:

@Krieghund:

In Anniversary, they are optional.

Just a question on this point.

In classic and the cd, tech was in unless both agreed not to use it. Same in revised. All the clubs/tournaments play this way.

Are you saying for AAAv that yech is out unless both sides agree to use it. Would this be the official club position? tournament position. AAAv LHTR position?

In the Classic and Revised (including LHTR) rules, tech was not optional.  Playing without it would fall into the realm of house rules.  This would explain the stance of tournament and clubs.

In Anniversary, the tech rules are stated to be optional.  There is no indication of whether the “default” position is to include them or exclude them, only that “players should decide”.  This leaves anyone the option of declaring the default to be either way, though I would tend to lean toward exclusion, simply on the meaning of “optional”.

[squirecam]

@Krieghund:

@squirecam:

@Krieghund:

In Anniversary, they are optional.

Just a question on this point.

In classic and the cd, tech was in unless both agreed not to use it. Same in revised. All the clubs/tournaments play this way.

Are you saying for AAAv that yech is out unless both sides agree to use it. Would this be the official club position? tournament position. AAAv LHTR position?

In the Classic and Revised (including LHTR) rules, tech was not optional.  Playing without it would fall into the realm of house rules.  This would explain the stance of tournament and clubs.

In Anniversary, the tech rules are stated to be optional.  There is no indication of whether the “default” position is to include them or exclude them, only that “players should decide”.  This leaves anyone the option of declaring the default to be either way, though I would tend to lean toward exclusion, simply on the meaning of “optional”.

This helps. Although I’d hate to lose some of the great new techs just because of one.

As to this “color” thing, the pieces never bothered me, nor the sculpts. For me, how the game playes is the thing. Whether 2 countries share the same plastic tank model… really I could care less.

[Perry]

The discussions about tech amazes me…

In both classic and AAR, tech was always excluded in all Club, PBEM and Tournaments games I’ve played. In AA50 it is stated an optional rule.

Still, the thread concerning this optional rule, sees the most posts of them all  :-)

[Guest]

@Krieghund:

Sorry, Rakeman.  I didn’t mean to take my frustration out on you.  I apologize.

And to everyone else, as well.

It’s cool man, I wasn’t really involved with the conversation over the last few pages, so I just skimmed through it… actually, I didn’t even know you were the one who first suggested that idea  :-D No apologies necessary IMO.

[Funcioneta]

@Perry:

In both classic and AAR, tech was always excluded in all Club, PBEM and Tournaments games I’ve played. In AA50 it is stated an optional rule.

That’s one of the reasons I prefer face to face matchs with my 3 pals. Go instant tech!  :-D

[Greand Stone]

Heavy Bombers may have been slightly overpowered and it might still be. But on the other hand, in my games it was only HB and Rockets which seemed worth to buy. Thats 4 out of 6 technologies which never got used. Thats a shame cuz the 4 unused technologies might have been realy fun to play with. Except for Jet fighters which is boooring.

The new system of buying and getting a technology is great. Almost all nations may find in advantius to invest atleast 5pt into a scientist, and all technologies will be used.
The technology ‘mech. inf’ may not be the most powerfull, but worth 5pt, definitivly.

On the other hand, I can understand some of the frustration. Lets take jet-planes technology. Anyone could see its totaly stupid. Take AA naval miniatures: maybe a good game, but it is completly destroyed by the totaly imbalance of the battleships. Lets take AA miniatures: the old SS-PG was completly inbalanced. And what I read, totaly destroied all turnament plays. (normal persons will ofcourse maybe get 1 SS-pg unit cuz they did not buy enough boxes, but turney players had 5 of them) And you could spot the inbalance right away. Lets take Tide of iron: a great game with balanced units, but a lot of the senarios are completly unbalanced. Hopefully tide of iron becomes a great game with better senarioes.

AA has been around for 50years. If they still dont know how to make a balanced game, i will be extremly unsatisfied. However I hope that the bonus IPC would balance the game.

But over to something completly different: I’m very curious to see what technology on the first main list is WRONG. I have no clue. Some hints please?

[Imperious Leader]

AA has been around for 50years.

what?  its been around since like 1981. I wish it was around for 50. Id like to see the 1950’s version of the game. It probably had the A-bomb for sure.

[shermantank]

@Imperious:

AA has been around for 50years.

what?  its been around since like 1981. I wish it was around for 50. Id like to see the 1950’s version of the game. It probably had the A-bomb for sure.

I wonder why the A-bomb isn’t a technological development. It would be so effective as a defense (Russia could turn the game in one turn if they used it against Germany.). Have any idea why, IL?

[Imperious Leader]

Politically incorrect weapon. How would it sell in Japan if Japan could be bombed into oblivion yet again in a family game?

I have a thread on revised techs. Its in them. more to follow.

The war was the war. you cant sugarcoat the thing and make it into digestible popcorn, or you make a mockery of the people who struggled and died.

[shermantank]

Very true. We got to remember the Greatest Generation that saved the world from fascist ideology.

[Krieghund]

Tech update:

@Lynxes:

(Super subs- as per AAR, attack at 3)

This is correct.

[Lynxes]

/Krieghund

Thanks, updated!

[Greand Stone]

Obviusly I was not thinking when I said A&A has been around for 50 years.  :-P
But A&A has been around for a long time, and its about time they create a balanced game.

Anyway, I enjoy the new submarine. The flyabove with one airplane to autokill lone submarines feature was extremly irritating.
since a sub did cost almost as much as a fighter, and all you need to negate the subs first strike is one single destroyer, it was realy no big point in using them.

Now at 6point it is significantly cheaper than the fighter.
The sub is cheaper than the destroyer but has the same/better attacking power.
In a 1 on 1 attack versus an attack on a cruiser, the submarine would win 50% of the times! (given that subs has first strike)
So, if fighting for naval dominance, super subs is a very nice technology. Even though not as strong as HB, super subs are still very very good.

However I still dont see any reason for germany to build submarines, unless ofcourse you ignore russia, build a HUGE fleet and go for UK first. In the 41 senario UK has to many destroyers, and they will in time kill the german fleet. Having lone submarines will sadly soon be dead and useless. I wish I as the germans could build a few subs which I actually could use. As of now, it is only the side with the largest navy which would benefit of building boats, cuz the superior navy will still destroy anything they see. I realy wish germany could benefit from building 1 sub every now and then.

I’m still very curious about the other technologies.

Is rockets in? If so, as a land technology or a naval technology?

Jet: this must be a technology, but whats the effect? +1 in defence is extremly stupid as it is of totaly no use. Who want to
use fighters as a primary defensive anyway? The attacker just needs to send in a few more men and your fighters are toast.

Still also pussled about the repair IC technology. In many many cases I would say its completly stupidity. If repair IC is the only thing this technology does I would be dissapointed. Stupid for Japan and USA, most probable stupid for Italy, russia and even for UK. If this is one of the technologies I would realy like to see it replaced with a house-rule as soon as possible…

[Lynxes]

/greandstone

See the German turn 1 strategy thread where I posted a strategy where you can actually build a sub or two as Germany! I there use the air force and subs to kill off those destroyers turn 1. The air force can be used for a few turns vs. the Royal Navy because the big clash on the Eastern Front will wait until you get extra inf forward as Germany just as in Axis & Allies Revised.

As for IC repair, I think the idea is that Germany needs this to counter a big air offensive from the Allies. Now research on Land/production might be worth it for the German player. US, UK and Japan will almost always choose from the naval/air chart, I think, so the fact that they won’t have any use for IC repair isn’t a big factor.

[Guest]

It would make more sense for Germany to build subs if the game used the convoy route system in A&A Pacific or Europe.  The Super Sub tech for the US makes a lot of sense in the Pacific, especially with the single Japanese destroyer to start.

I suspect that the real use of the IC repair tech will be on additional Industrial Centers built later, where you have limited production.  An Industrial Center built on a territory with 3 IPC could be very readily knocked out by a Strategic Bombing Raid, with no production until repaired.