Interesting story Garg, interesting story.
And thanks Marc for the background info. It’s easy to forget/overlook things like that.
Presidential Election (as a current event- watch the tone or it's gone)
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Sean Hannity might be a good choice Pervavita. :wink:
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don’t lissten to or watch him. so i don’t know anything about him.
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@M36:
FOX does lean a little to the right Jen. Farther than Conservatives will admit, but it is no where near as far right as the liberals try to label it as.
And Jen, your hatred of McCain is clouding your judgment.
First off, I do not hate him. Hate is an emotion of intense revulsion, distaste, or antipathy for a person, thing, or phenomenon, generally attributed to a desire to avoid, restrict, remove, or destroy the hated object.
I do not want to destroy him. I just do not want to see him elected to office because I fear he will not only be one of the most liberal presidents in American history (right up there with FDR, IMHO) but also because I fear he will destroy the Republican party by redefining it as the junior leagues of the Democrat party.
Let’s look at some of his stances in RECENT history (we’ll leave off everything before the 2000 election because he did not hold animosity against the Republican party at that time.) I am also not going to get into whether they are correct stances or incorrect stances, AT THIS TIME, because many readers do not want to read research papers on the forums. :P ADD, the lot of us! (myself included.)
1) He voted against the tax cuts in 2001 and 2003. Effectively, that was a vote for higher taxes. Republicans under our CURRENT definition desire lower taxes. Democrats generally desire higher taxes.
2) He not only supported, but co-sponsored and co-wrote the McCain Feingold legislation limited free speech. Effectively shredding parts of the Bill of Rights and effectively increasing the power of the federal government over the people. Generally speaking, Republicans desire SMALLER government with LESS power. Democrats generally desire STRONGER government with MORE power.
3) McCain is for human embryo stem cell research, DESPITE scientific breakthroughs to generate the same cells without destroying human embryos in the process. This is clearly against the stated goal of the Republican party to abolish the murder of innocent human life. Democrats have no problem with this because they do not recognize humans as alive until they breath oxygen on their own without support from the host body. Until then, they are parasites.
4) He voted for Sarbanes-Oxley to punish pharmaceutical companies, whom he considers the bad guys. This is anti-business. Republicans want lesser government so that business can compete to make the best products and services for the people. Democrats want to punish business for success, and in the case of SOME democrats, to absorb those businesses into the government.
5) McCain voted AGAINST repealing the death tax. In other words, he wants all that money your family earned that you ALREADY PAID A TAX ON, to be taxed AGAIN. If that’s not support for HIGHER taxes, I don’t know what is! It’s also illegal to tax a tax in this country, to my knowledge. Again, Republicans generally go for LOWER taxes, Democrats for HIGHER taxes.
6) McCain supports “forced government regulation of greenhouse gas emissions.” This is partially conservative in that it is an effort to CONSERVE the natural beauty of the land. However, his reasons are not. His reasons are to punish companies, expand the power and control of the government over the people and feed into the hysteria created by one Albert Gore, Democrat.
7) McCain is AGAINST drilling for oil in Anwar. (For that matter everywhere, but his votes were against in Anwar.) That means he doesn’t care about the people paying so much at the pumps they have to chose between gas to get to work or medicine to be healthy enough to work. All to be overly protectionist for the environment, is all I can think. Otherwise, why would he vote for legislation that hurts women and children the most? (That’s TIME Magazine humor, btw. They always say “women and children hardest hit.”)
8) He has voted to INCREASE social security taxes. Republicans, by and large, want to abolish social security and allow people to save for their own retirements. Democrats cling to social security like a loved teddy bear.
- He has voted in THREE bills since 2001 to allow illegal immigrants to stay INDEFINITELY, the most recent bill required them to pay a modest fine. However, the instant we call it amnesty, he cries like Hillary Clinton when she thinks she’s going to lose. Republicans have NO PROBLEM with immigrants. We just want them to do it legally. Democrats don’t care about legal or illegal, they just want votes so they can stay in power and make government stronger. But don’t you DARE stand up and try to take your place at the table, unless you’re rich and white. Cause then you’ll be attacked by the party!
10) McCain would rather have thousands of Americans die than to poor water up a terrorist’s nose for a few seconds. Or so he has stated and voted. Never mind that this same technique is used on AMERICAN SOLDIERS in POW training. Never mind that this same technique has been proved 100% non-lethal and causes no permanent, physical harm.
Basically, if you look at anything EXCEPT voting for the surge, McCain has been pretty much a straight line democrat the entire two terms of Bush’s presidency. Not saying that’s good or bad, but to have him claim to be conservative after all that is pretty ridiculous.
If republicans want to elect him to wear the Mantel of the party, then that’s their choice. But let’s not pretend he’s a fiscal or religious conservative nor a man of smaller government, lesser taxes, more security along the borders or going to alleviate the financial problems wrought upon this land after the new Congress took over in 2006. These are the SAME guys he’s been working with consistently for almost a decade. I doubt, seriously, he’ll change his colors over night and reinvent himself for good. He might change his clothes, but under neath the new suit, he’s the same guy. A bitter, conservative hating, rich, old white guy bent on punishing the Republican party for betraying him in 2000.
That said, I will not sit out the election. I’ll just vote democrat for President and hope that the Republicans can liberate the house and senate.
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why all the half-truths jen.
as before when you said McCain MAY be pro military and he MAY be anti-abortion :roll:
oh, and the most liberal president since FDR.
your credibility is shot other than being a romney rag.
1. McCain voted against them b/c he wanted TAX CUTS for the lower income levels also. OH MY! and he wanted spending cuts to go with them……OH MY!
2. he sponsored this bill b/c it makes negative ads off limits for 30 days prior to the election. i’m all for that. no more dirt. and it makes groups state who they support before they drag someone through the mud. i’m for that.
you must not be.
and also, McCain has good reason to do this. the ads in 2000 about his adopted child were absolutely sickening.
3. i dont support this, but even nancy reagan did support it. the conservative party is pretty split on this. the only reason being that THEY ARE THROW AWAY ANYWAYS. some people actually see a use rather than waste.
4. you like those companies. they are screwing everyone. let people go to canada and mexico to get cheaper generic drugs that do the same damn thing. go McCain, screw those companies. (coming from a pro-business believer in the trickle down effect)
5. he doesnt like dynasties.(kennedy etc.) but i also agree that people should have a right to keep their earned money and give it to those who they wish. the only ones that really care about this are the uber-rich, so who cares. doesnt matter to me, but in principal, they should keep it.
6. he’s not a nut job like gore about this. he just makes a point that pollution degrades everyone’s lives. and we should do something about it. doing something is better than nothing. i’m no tree hugging liberal…lumberjacks need jobs too…but we can help a little to clean some stuff up. i mean china’s pollution ruins our west coasts air quality. screw that. but way to try and attempt to put his reasons out there for him.
7. indeed. his comments about it were the drilling there wouldnt really add up to diddly squat for us in the large scale picture of our oil usage. and he says we should just intensify our efforts to get off of oil by all means. i agree with that but i would say every little bit counts. but i see where the oil from there really doesnt help all that much, we would need way more drilling around our country…which would take forever…a decade or so to get everything set up…by then ethanol plants (200 in construction) will already be built…so why? lets use some common sense here. McCain is.
8. hopefully this is a ploy that democrats rail about. making things so expensive for people that they want to get rid of the demcrats’ bread and butter enactments. fient accompli. if not, i really think this was stupid of him.
9. earth to JEN. THEY ALREADY DO. whaddya gonna do about it. hmmmmmm? get the brute squad out there to track them down? no. hit all the companies with your dumb idea that smashes the economy? nope, bad idea. well what are we going to do… be pragmatci for once. we’re in a tight spot. just put up the fence first, aka McCain, and then lets worry about these illegals. dont do anything without the fence…they’ll come right back. but we cant be fascists about this entire thing.
10. this is the only one we say we do. do you honestly think that our NSA or CIA in other countries or other ones, are making life miserable in worse ways for terrorists that we immediately need information from. i sure think we are, let the people stay in the dark, everyones ungrateful for their protection b/c they dont see it with their own eyes how dangerous the world is. or we can just drop off the terrorists to allies and let them pour molten steel in their asses till they talk. McCain wouldnt stop these things from going on, its good politics to say you will though.
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I think you are taking an emotional stance on this Balung. McCain’s been flipping all over the place trying to defend all these items even more then Kerry did in the 2004 election.
I’m not saying Romney’s perfect. I’m just saying McCain’s a liberal. Sorry if the truth hurts, but he has YET to sign onto a single republican initiative that was not just to support his pro-military stance to get re-elected. (If his military record was ever not enough to get him elected, he’d stab the military in the back faster then light can travel from it’s source to a destination a millimeter away.)
Maybe he’ll be a good president, maybe not. But he’s NOT conservative. And your attempts to justify his actions are not persuasive. They actually sound a little petulant. And the fact that you have to justify his actions, not state that they are actually conservative, means you are agreeing, at least a little, that he does NOT take conservative stances on the issues.
As for McCain Feingold, it has NOT worked as he allegedly thinks it should. (I hold it works PERFECTLY the way HE intended it too.) All it does is prevent campaigns from DEFENDING themselves against political smears and slams within 30 days of an election. It does NOT stop campaigns (like his own) from lying about his opponents.
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you really think he’d stab the military in the back…… :|… :oops:… :-(
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I think he will the instant that supporting the military will no longer get him or keep him in power.
Not because he dislikes the military, but he knows his constituency dislikes the military. Right now he needs to support the military to stay a Senator and to play to the people as if he is a Conservative. Once elected, he won’t need to support the military anymore, in fact, it might HURT him as I suspect he’ll change parties once elected. I suspect he wants to be a Democrat, but knew his best chances were to get the Republican nomination and run against Hillary and/or Obama then to attempt to run against them in the Democrat party in the primary. After he is elected President, he can declare a new allegiance with the people he identifies with and get them to re-elect him in 2016.
Of course, if he loses, and I can almost predict with 100% certainty that he will lose in November if he survives Super Tuesday, he’ll have to keep pretending to support the military while secretly working to undermine the Republican party and working with the leadership of the Democrat party.
Honestly, we should move his chair to the left side of the aisle. He’s gotta be getting muscle cramps from stretching his hand over the aisle to vote with the democrats all the time.
But that’s just the way I, as an individual, see it. And I am sure I am not alone. There’s quite a few scientific and unscientific polls out there that show that with McCain as the Republican Nominee that Republican turnout will be the lowest since after Nixon’s resignation.
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how’d you do that?! :lol:
and just stop it, his constituency is not liberals. not matter how much you yourself want it to be.
and dont worry, there are tons of people who will go to the polls to vote against hillary. even though you will vote for her. b/c you’re such the republican supporter….
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I don’t care what I think of his constituency. What matters is that all the polls SHOW his constituency consider themselves to be liberals.
I posted the poll for Florida before. Of his voters, over 60% considered themselves liberal or moderately liberal. That means he only had 30-something % conservative voters.
That’s his constituency.
On the flip side, Romney had about the exact opposite. More of his voters (think it was in the upper 50%s if I remember right) thought they were conservative or moderately conservative.
Live in denial all you want, Balung. You are free to do so. But even the guys voting for McCain are overwhelmingly considering themselves as liberals, not conservatives. Considering McCain’s endorsements all come from liberals and liberal publications, it’s no surprise many people in this nation do not view him as the conservative candidate.
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rambo is not liberal…… :x
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Ever hear of moderates, you know, the majority of the nation?
Always got to be black/white, good/bad, light/dark to make it easy for you, I know…
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then there needs to be a moderat party, not people claiming to be conservative or liberal and in reality being the other. the problem with McCain is that he claims to be Conservative but he isn’t, atleast no where near as much as the base that he is trying to get is.
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Ever hear of moderates, you know, the majority of the nation?
Yea, I heard of them. They’re almost extinct as a species. Maybe they should go to the Democrat party and make them a bit more moderate? Instead of letting the really weird people keep running that party? (I’m not talking the politicians, I’m talking about the REALLY weird ones, the ones with tin foil hats that congregate at Moveon.org and Media Matters.)
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The problem is Jermo, that there are no moderates that run for office, there are only extremists. We have socialists such as Clinton, and advocacies of theocracy such as Huckabee running for office. There are no more realists left in this world, only fools who wish to implement the same failed policies over and over, as the Eagle gasps for breath.
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I am not sure what to think about this but Huckleberry said on TV that Chuck Norris was going to be his defense minister if he were elected. If this is not a joke that man must be insane to make such a claim. I heard it while typing i didnt actually see if he was laughing or something. Can anybody confirm?
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and stephen colbert is to be his vice president. i take it he’s probably still just joking.
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then there needs to be a moderat party, not people claiming to be conservative or liberal and in reality being the other. the problem with McCain is that he claims to be Conservative but he isn’t, atleast no where near as much as the base that he is trying to get is.
Not sure how a moderate party would work. I just know that a majority of people can agree on key issues. But there are some emotional, new, or complex issues that generally divide us…or the methods of addressing issues are desirable by some but not by others.
But most of all, I don’t think any of the candidates stand particular for the beliefs their party is supposed to uphold. They only latch on to the key issues that get voters attention and do what will most likely get them elected.
@Cmdr:
Yea, I heard of them. They’re almost extinct as a species. Maybe they should go to the Democrat party and make them a bit more moderate? Instead of letting the really weird people keep running that party? (I’m not talking the politicians, I’m talking about the REALLY weird ones, the ones with tin foil hats that congregate at Moveon.org and Media Matters.)
What the hell are you talking about? If anything, the party that has been usurped by religious megalomaniacs and run this country south for 8 years needs some moderation.
@M36:
The problem is Jermo, that there are no moderates that run for office, there are only extremists. We have socialists such as Clinton, and advocacies of theocracy such as Huckabee running for office. There are no more realists left in this world, only fools who wish to implement the same failed policies over and over, as the Eagle gasps for breath.
I’m glad you haven’t seen real extremism. Those two are pretty mild compared to some (rare) fringe members.
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@M36:
We have socialists such as Clinton
Wait… Hillary Clinton… ? Socialist? :-o
She definitely fits the description… Biggest example in my mind at the time: Wasn’t she the one that wanted to instigate a State Run Health Care Program back when her husband was in the White House?
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