@ampdrive said in German's take Holland on 2nd impulse.. DEI navy is rolled for?:
@tmtm1 What does 1st and 2nd impulse mean?
Germany gets 2 turns on first turn
Germany against the Netherlands; Japanese wiping the American navy
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First, I just want to add something for you to consider in the future. Doesn’t pertain to your current game, but something to think about if you ever end up playing with the Netherlands Fights Back Expansion.
If using that expansion, the Dutch are their own playable power, and their IPP’s don’t go to the CW. While true, they would get the money in exile still if you attack the Netherlands before Japan attacks the DEI, it’s not as strong as combining that income with the CW, which is obviously your concern here.
So again, it’s more of a reminder of potential strategy change if playing with that expansion in the future! :-)
To address your actual question, you of course raise a good point. That’s a fair sum of cash going to the CW early on if the Japanese cannot strike for a couple of turns in the DEI.
I would say avoiding the Netherlands early on could definitely be a good route to go.
One thing I would say though, and this could be unrealistic, but you never know I guess, is to watch out for the UK deciding to attack the Netherlands themselves. Yes, the 10 IPP penalty for attacking a minor is steep. But if your the UK and you’re worried about the Dutch not being attacked for, say 3 turns after France falls, maybe you decide to take that risk and attack the Netherlands, and whatever DEI islands you can reach. You might end up recouping that money you lost in declaring war right away.
This would also give the UK a beachhead on mainland Europe. With the negatives of amphibious assaults, the Axis of course wouldn’t want this. A lot would have to be in favor of the Allies for that to actually hold past one turn, but circumstances being applied, it could potentially not be good.
Again, not saying this is best practice by any stretch. Just saying it would be something to look out for. You’d have to see how the game is playing out of course. The Allies could notice that Japan is realistically multiple turns away from considering an attack on the DEI, and could maybe find this worth while.
Probably too far fetched, I don’t necessarily think I would do this as the Allies. It’s more of a lesson in paying attention to what your opponent is doing, or could do I guess!
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That sounds like a good way to go about playing the KMT Rank Carcass. The people in my group usually do not lend-lease to KMT because they find it to be a waste of time. Even though the KMT may still end up getting beat, as long as you do not get horrible rolls, you will be able to force the Japanese player to expend resources replacing them. I think that this is the part the people in my group do not understand or just do not care much about.
I will definitely be pondering how to get the KMT/US to do some good joint strikes. I will probably just end up sending a small air force in order to get some firepower, I would not mind getting a US Marine over there either haha.
That is a wild idea, Chris, in my opinion, Germany will have to be very weak on the western front to try that. If they move most of their units to fight the Soviets maybe that could be something to try. I’ll keep that idea in my back pocket though.
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That is a wild idea, Chris, in my opinion, Germany will have to be very weak on the western front to try that. If they move most of their units to fight the Soviets maybe that could be something to try. I’ll keep that idea in my back pocket though.
Haha like I said, 100% hypothetical. It’s definitely in the realm of could happen, but not at all likely too. I like to flip the script on some of these and think “what’s even in the realm of possibility?”. I like to try and think what the opponent might do, or what I might do if I was in their shoes.
Agreed on other posts re the Japanese fleet though. Try and spread them thin by hitting in multiple theaters. South Pacific, Central Pacific, China, Southeast Asia, Soviet Border Clashes. Because you’re right, if you let the Japanese sit back and build up a navy, it’ll become out of control, and they can hack at the Allies piecemeal if they catch them on the back foot. Trying to maintain some initiative in more than one of the theaters above is probably the best way to combat this. Wait until the right time for a major blow when they’re unsupported or spread thin enough to get a sound victory!
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That is a wild idea, Chris, in my opinion, Germany will have to be very weak on the western front to try that. If they move most of their units to fight the Soviets maybe that could be something to try. I’ll keep that idea in my back pocket though.
Haha like I said, 100% hypothetical. It’s definitely in the realm of could happen, but not at all likely too. I like to flip the script on some of these and think “what’s even in the realm of possibility?”. I like to try and think what the opponent might do, or what I might do if I was in their shoes.
I love this kinda stuff. This type of play while rare, can be a really entertaining twist. CCP or KMT leaving China. It’s all situational like attacking Spain or Portugal for a US naval base, costs 10$ make the French pay most of that or share the cost. This isn’t really any different Chris good points.
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The people in my group usually do not lend-lease to KMT because they find it to be a waste of time. Even though the KMT may still end up getting beat, as long as you do not get horrible rolls, you will be able to force the Japanese player to expend resources replacing them. I think that this is the part the people in my group do not understand or just do not care much about.
If this is the case, you have a good chance of winning the game :mrgreen:
One thing is the “harassment” of the Japanese, as discussed. Another important thing is the Victory Points. Take a look and see which are “doable” for each Alliance. The tipping point may well be found in China - for all three :-)
When it comes to the Chinese theatre, expert A&A players are probably worst off at playing GW, because of obsolete knowledge.
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@Rank:
That is a wild idea, Chris, in my opinion, Germany will have to be very weak on the western front to try that. If they move most of their units to fight the Soviets maybe that could be something to try. I’ll keep that idea in my back pocket though.
Haha like I said, 100% hypothetical. It’s definitely in the realm of could happen, but not at all likely too. I like to flip the script on some of these and think “what’s even in the realm of possibility?”. I like to try and think what the opponent might do, or what I might do if I was in their shoes.
I love this kinda stuff. This type of play while rare, can be a really entertaining twist. CCP or KMT leaving China. It’s all situational like attacking Spain or Portugal for a US naval base, costs 10$ make the French pay most of that or share the cost. This isn’t really any different Chris good points.
Thanks Rank, I’m right there with you! Exactly, it’s ALL situational. There are a lot of different things that may present themselves. I think we all forget sometimes that the Allies have the ability to attack the little guys too, if they really wanted to. If I see an opening that I think will benefit me, you bet I’m going to seriously consider it, despite how far fetched it may seem!
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I like the ideas of throwing in some twists in strategies every now and then. Keeps things interesting. I will consider attacking minor countries for strategic reasons like Portugal, the Azores islands, and a couple of Portuguese territories in southern Africa.
Chris, I saw the question you posted about Germany using the Lightning War ability against the Soviets on the global war game website. I actually have considered doing that, using the medium armor, mechanized infantry, and armored cars. I considered going to Russia’s major factories rather than Moscow so they can not build much except militia. Granted I would need to attack at least 3 different territories which is very difficult, but it is doable. Especially if you do not sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and take eastern Poland and maybe even Lithuania for yourself. Of course you leave the West exposed to France and the CW which sucks but it is just a fun thought. I have considered doing it because I want to see what happens and I want the Soviets and the West get involved in a war. Japan can even side with the Allies in order to attack the Soviets I think? Correct me if I wrong, but I could’ve sworn I read that somewhere.
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Chris, I saw the question you posted about Germany using the Lightning War ability against the Soviets on the global war game website. I actually have considered doing that, using the medium armor, mechanized infantry, and armored cars. I considered going to Russia’s major factories rather than Moscow so they can not build much except militia. Granted I would need to attack at least 3 different territories which is very difficult, but it is doable. Especially if you do not sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and take eastern Poland and maybe even Lithuania for yourself. Of course you leave the West exposed to France and the CW which sucks but it is just a fun thought. I have considered doing it because I want to see what happens and I want the Soviets and the West get involved in a war.
Interesting, that would also certainly be powerful. I’m a bit confused on if the USSR losses their IPP’s upon Moscow being taken. On the Global War site someone said they do not, but on another thread here someone said they do. Do you know? I haven’t found definitively anywhere.
But yes, it’s an interesting thought. I won’t rehash the whole thing here, but taking Moscow in the first turn of invasion would be a big blow, even with the Soviets being able to declare a second capital, and especially if they do in fact lose their IPP’s when Moscow falls. As you point out, it would make the West much more difficult. In my other posts I do point out that this is also situational, and a lot would have to fall in line well for the Axis. It would take some careful planning to pull it off, while simultaneously preparing in the West.
I have considered doing it because I want to see what happens and I want the Soviets and the West get involved in a war. Japan can even side with the Allies in order to attack the Soviets I think? Correct me if I wrong, but I could’ve sworn I read that somewhere.
I too would love to see the Comintern and Allies go to war some time. I wonder how often it happens in peoples’ games?
As to your Japan siding with the Allies question, I don’t believe that is possible, but I too could have missed something somewhere.
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https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=39893.msg1663107#msg1663107
This has a thread regarding Russia and allies DOW house rule options. We use it every game now.EDIT to remove failed quote attempt
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The rule for any major power is if your capital is taken, you must give up all IPPs to the bank. Only in the case of France do the IPPs go to the conqueror if Paris is taken, obviously it will be Germany most of the time. But yeah I think I am actually going to try it the next time I play as German/Italy. Might consider getting the Japanese player in on it too if Siberia is looking pretty weak. If it fails then oh well :). Obviously, this requires preparation from the very beginning.
As for Japan being aligned with the Allies, I do not have specific proof that they can be aligned, but technically both Japan and the Allies can be at war with the Soviets at the same time. How they would handle that is up to the individual players.
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The rule for any major power is if your capital is taken, you must give up all IPPs to the bank. Only in the case of France do the IPPs go to the conqueror if Paris is taken, obviously it will be Germany most of the time. But yeah I think I am actually going to try it the next time I play as German/Italy. Might consider getting the Japanese player in on it too if Siberia is looking pretty weak. If it fails then oh well :). Obviously, this requires preparation from the very beginning.
Thanks KingKuba, that’s what I thought as well re IPP’s and capitals falling. Someone saying the USSR kept theirs if Moscow fell is what confused me. I’ll be sure to correct them on that point as well!
I think it definitely could be something worth trying. Having Japan help could only strengthen the support. I can go back to the original thread on this topic as well to discuss there, but it would be interesting. While the USSR won’t be done in (with the ability to create a second capital, I mean), they will be severely hurt, and going a whole turn without being able to build troops. While it doesn’t knock them out, I do wonder if it essentially makes them no longer a HUGE threat. This would allow Axis forces to concentrate more power in the west, which would help at this juncture since you will have left it under strength to make this strategy work.
I agree, it’s most definitely a strategy that would have to have been thought out starting turn one. Again, it’s on the other thread, but since the blitz ability expires if not used, you’d have to act quickly to make it work.
As for Japan being aligned with the Allies, I do not have specific proof that they can be aligned, but technically both Japan and the Allies can be at war with the Soviets at the same time. How they would handle that is up to the individual players.
Exactly, I know it’s conceivable that they both are at war with the Comintern at the same time, but I think falls short of actual alliance. But you’re correct, that’s where individual players come in, they could essentially have a pact made that says they won’t fight each other and take out USSR. But that assumes they can trust the other to not back stab them as well! :evil:
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Yeah, I would consider having Italy sacrificing the African front to help against France. This would force the French to have to respect the Italians and prevent them from throwing their weight behind attacking Germany. Italy could still gain VPs by taking French territories or even the Balkans if need be. I will try it out and let you know what happens!
Yeah the whole back-stabbing thing is something to watch out for definitely :wink:
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The rule for any major power is if your capital is taken, you must give up all IPPs to the bank. Only in the case of France do the IPPs go to the conqueror if Paris is taken.
The last sentence about the case of France, can you provide a link or tell me where in the rules this is mentioned?
Thanks in advance :-)
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The rule for any major power is if your capital is taken, you must give up all IPPs to the bank. Only in the case of France do the IPPs go to the conqueror if Paris is taken.
The last sentence about the case of France, can you provide a link or tell me where in the rules this is mentioned?
Thanks in advance :-)
I missed that as well. Just did a quick review of the rulebook and I do not see that as a rule. Only that defeated capitals lose all IPP’s.
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Page 66, under the title “Free France”.
“All IPP currently in the possession of the French player are surrendered to the Axis.”
I was surprised by that because I thought the money was supposed to go to the bank.
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Page 66, under the title “Free France”.
“All IPP currently in the possession of the French player are surrendered to the Axis.”
Fuck me. I’ve read that manual 500 times. How could I have missed that?
Thanks for clearing that up :mrgreen:
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It is a good thing that Germany does get the French IPPs. Gives them some more units to place in preparation for Barbarossa. Speaking of Barbarossa I have a couple questions. I should probably start a new thread for this but oh well. Do you guys have Germany or Italy attack Yugoslavia and Greece if you attack them at all and how do you guys handle invading the Soviet Union? Do you guys only go for the Soviet territories that are apart of the Lebensraum victory objective, or do you look to conquer as much as possible?
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Page 66, under the title “Free France”.
“All IPP currently in the possession of the French player are surrendered to the Axis.”
���� me. I’ve read that manual 500 times. How could I have missed that?
Thanks for clearing that up :mrgreen:
Same, thanks General! I went right to that section to and somehow glossed right over it!
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It is a good thing that Germany does get the French IPPs. Gives them some more units to place in preparation for Barbarossa. Speaking of Barbarossa I have a couple questions. I should probably start a new thread for this but oh well. Do you guys have Germany or Italy attack Yugoslavia and Greece if you attack them at all and how do you guys handle invading the Soviet Union? Do you guys only go for the Soviet territories that are apart of the Lebensraum victory objective, or do you look to conquer as much as possible?
A great topic for a new thread :-)
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That is pretty much the only country that does surrender its IPC’s though right? I swear I saw that no major powers surrender their IPC’s in the FAQ threads.
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