If Russia stacks everything in Amur, is it worth it as Japan to declare war and attack the forces there. I don’t want to give them the mongolia troops, but I need my land units against China.
Do you think this move was intended so that I don’t attack or so that I attack him instead of China?
His territories are worth as much as the chinese ones.
In general is it worth it to attack Russia with Japan in J1-J3 or should this attack mostly be saved for later in the game?
I think most people would tell you that this delays a planned j1/j2 West Allies DoW and say to crush Amur instead. I would agree.
I’m assuming this is an R1 Amur stack which means a j1 amur crush
@Colt45:
I think most people would tell you that this delays a planned j1/j2 West Allies DoW and say to crush Amur instead. I would agree.
I’m assuming this is an R1 Amur stack which means a j1 amur crush
Yep R1 Amur stack
If Russia moves everything to the coast on turn 1 (or usually turn 2) they are going to get attacked. I’ve seen this go badly, and waste japans momentum (though its not costly in terms of TUV really), but there is a higher chance that Japan just annhiliates you because they can bring 5 air pairs and 2 sbs minimum plus a ton of land guys. Japan cant empty Manchuria until Russia wanders away or gets destroyed, but you may be handing him that opportunity, and killing those 20 Siberian Russian units is a huge benefit to the Axis (since they can save Moscow or stymy japan, in theory).
If Russia moves less than everything near Japan, its EVEN MORE likely to draw a big attack. 12 men are even easier to kill than 20. 3-4 guys isn’t worth activating the Mongolian rule for. As Russia you may see this as a brawny stack but its not. It cant attack and it can barely defend–certainly not against a power that has 20 planes!
The most direct way of winning is Operation Crussia. This plan is to have Germany and Italy leapfrog and kill Moscow by turn 6. Japan helps by taking the 7$ worth of eastern territories at the expense of probably not killing India or getting Spice Islands as fast. Japan can help stratbomb Moscow too. When all 3 axis work together, Russia is a lost cause.
As Russia, you want to make Japan think twice about entering your territory at all. You still need those men in the Moscow defense. As a result, they usually walk home, blocking the blitz in their wake. Japan won’t usually see it as convenient to attack you unless by doing so they can kill a substantial portion of those 20 guys. If they can do that, they grabbed your income and your rescue force in one blow. If the 20 guys head straight for Moscow, Japan may want to grab Siberian East $$ anyways, but once he starts, he should be facing 20 or so MORE Mongolians and Chinese partisans and this is where you want Japan to be stretched all over the place, having to fight 4 separate powers in 3 directions, only to face a confrontation the strongest and most powerful enemy (USA) at the moment he can’t take on any more. So I usually leave 3-5 guys in the east just to force japan to fight for every territory and use combined arms and planes in every battle–eventually something will give (or the Allies are going to lose since all of them, including the USA, are individually weaker than Japan until turn 8)
So, if Russia is standing where you can hit him, delay your plan and do a J3-4, focusing on taking out China and Russia early and building factories and land units.
If Russia isn’t being that bold, then the border should probably just stay as it is because Japan has so many enemies to deal with. Russia wants this state of affairs because it can’t spare the mobile units needed to help in the east and it cant take its eastern territories back once Japan rolls in. A J1 plan simply wont permit a Russia attack at the same time. So, if I see Russia stack up on the coast, I defer my J1 and kill them first.
I don’t do this move as the Soviets because Japan starts with too many units in Korea/Manchuria and too much aircraft in range of Amur.
I think it’s a mistake for Japan to use its fleet/transports to attack Amur J1–they can still attack without any transports and divert a strategic bomber to Yunnan and still have 100% odds with an average +25 tuv swing. If they send their fleet and transports south they’ll be in good position for a J2 or J3 declaration, but if Japans’ transports/fleet are stuck in sz6, Japan will have to put off its declaration till J3.
But I’m uncertain about it because however good this attack looks for Japan on paper, it will divert alot of troops from China. The extra 6 inf in Mongolia help make up for the Allied tuv loss. But the Soviets will also lose out financially because Japan will conquer Siberia quickly.
Massing Amur on R2 seems like the better move because the bulk of Japan’s airforce is usually out of range of Amur on J2.
I think it’s a mistake for Japan to use its fleet/transports to attack Amur J1–they can still attack without any transports and divert a strategic bomber to Yunnan and still have 100% odds with an average +25 tuv swing.
I agree on this, but then how to take out India?
I don’t do this move as the Soviets because Japan starts with too many units in Korea/Manchuria and too much aircraft in range of Amur.
Well if it prevents a J1 against UK/ANZAC/USA by doing the all in on Amur with Russia is that not good for the Allies in the short term on the Pacific map?
Of course knowing your opponents tendencies help in the decision making process. Against a particular guy I play often, I know those 20 units are never going back to Moscow. They will haunt me the entire game. He will position them until its safe to get Manchuria / Korea which is a 12 IPC swing. This guy shoves everything (maybe not the northern units until it’s mostly safe). Japan can’t be everywhere round. Japan is the weakest of the two axis boards and it’s easier to beat them up (I think most agree with that?).
Sometimes I just say screw it go after them regardless even if it means only killing 3 in Amur. I know that’s not optimal strategy, but I’m probably never going to win on the Pacific board ever anyways against my nemesis. Moscow is taken most of our games. My hope is that eventually he loses enough games and decides it’s not paying off.
I don’t do this move as the Soviets because Japan starts with too many units in Korea/Manchuria and too much aircraft in range of Amur.
I think it’s a mistake for Japan to use its fleet/transports to attack Amur J1–they can still attack without any transports and divert a strategic bomber to Yunnan and still have 100% odds with an average +25 tuv swing. If they send their fleet and transports south they’ll be in good position for a J2 or J3 declaration, but if Japans’ transports/fleet are stuck in sz6, Japan will have to put off its declaration till J3.
But I’m uncertain about it because however good this attack looks for Japan on paper, it will divert alot of troops from China. The extra 6 inf in Mongolia help make up for the Allied tuv loss. But the Soviets will also lose out financially because Japan will conquer Siberia quickly.
Massing Amur on R2 seems like the better move because the bulk of Japan’s airforce is usually out of range of Amur on J2.
Agree
