J2 DOW - What to build?

[Fatespinner]

Hi,

I am making a J2 DOW with attacks on the Philippines, Malaya, Yuanna, Hong Kong and so other smaller battles. In J1 I build 3 transporters that now move my troops to my battles.

The Us fleet sits at Hawaii and waits.

So what shall I build in J2? I don’t have good spaces on the mainland to build a factory. I plan to build one in FIC, Malaya and Hong Kong. Transporters will probably get killed by the US fleet.

Are subs the way to go? There is always the risk that the US fleet will attack my newly build stack. Or shall I save my IPC to build 3 minor IPC on J3 and on J4 12 units?

[Private-Panic]

SH is right. J’s TTs in sz6 should be safe with a DD blocker and air in J ready to scramble.

I would say there are two J2 priorities:

• Asia ground units. These will require some factories on the Asian mainland, so I often take FIC in J1, which J can do without declaring war on the other allies. Then build a factory there in J2. But you do have the alternative of Kiangsu, which many would prefer to Malaya anyway. Although a factory on Chinese territory can be destroyed, Malaya is more at risk given that an allied fleet off Queensland can get there, since the US is able to can open for Anzac.

A NB in FIC (or Hainan) can threaten India, if J’s fleet is there, which minimises UKP help to China.

• Island grabbing. You will need enough TTs. Enough in J2 is a variable concept as it depends on what you did J1. J has the fleet to defend a lot of TTs, but whatever is lost will probably need to be replaced.

You may have a few ipcs left for a DD or something.

And just to show that this or any other logic can be turned on its head …. I remember playing the allies against a heavy and continuous stream of J purchases of AB’s and planes. You’d think that J has enough planes! But it did cause me some difficulties coping with this unusual strategy.

[taamvan]

You can buy and power 1 factory during a KJF.  Buying more factories during USA pressure is dangerous, as you will get them established but then struggle to power them with money and units.    Since you are not taking FiC until J2 and placing first units there J4, this is going to take a while and long-term allocation of resources.

If the USA is coming for you, big guns, 4 carriers+, then you’ll need to make and keep a warding-off fleet near japan.  This is usually 1 BB 1 CV 1 DD (kept aside, not headed around Malaya) as a core then all the stuff you can buy.  Subs are a good choice to make you look threatening, but they are better for picking off screens than defending your fleet–limit yourself to 2-3 of these.  1 DD per turn as Japan is always a solid move, because you are constantly replacing these as blockers and escorts and losing them as casualties.  More planes are good, but carriers are better as the existing ones tend to sail west and using your existing planes to bulk out carrier defense is the cheapest way to add hits (16 for 2 hits plus 2 extra defenders will ramp your defense power).

If the USA is just goofing around in the pac, then you should prep for 2 factories and Manchuria J1 build is probably the best way here (as only FiC is a better placement but can only be obtained later…).    If he is going for KJF and Iwo or a northerly crossing, you’ll need a really thorny fleet to make him think twice about a direct confrontation and head the southern route instead.    2 SB 6-8 carrier based planes and 12+ sea hits should work nicely by J4—plenty of carriers followed by destroyers.    If you have planes on the carriers, they can shuttle bomb (bring x2 as many 4-move planes by trading out the ones on carriers for land based ones).

A lot of people invest in bases, factories and transports but then lose Iwo and lose parity with the US build.

[Fatespinner]

I decided to buy of minor Ic, one harbor and 5 inf. I placed the Ic in Kiangsu, the harbor in Hainan and the 5 inf in Japan to defend it against an invasion.

A single DD and three fighters for scramble won’t help if the entire US feel decides that it is a good idea to convoy Japan and kill the new ships.

[Fatespinner]

That is a really good point.

[Private-Panic]

Or a DD in sz6 will prevent a US non com move there.

[Fatespinner]

But they could make a combat move. Why would they make a non-combat move? Are you assuming that the way is blocked by a DD that they kill during the combat-move?

[Fatespinner]

An air base in Kwangsi would also have been useful in retrospective. Then my aircraft stationed there would have been able to attack any fleet around SZ6 and land in Japan. With an Naval Base in Hainan any fleet that would be stationed in the Philippines or SZ36 would be in range of SZ6.

Something to consider for the next game. My original plan was to attack India in J3 or J4, but that was hindered by UKP moving the troops from Malaya to Shan State and from India to Burma. This really puts a lot of pressure on Japan, because you have to fear counter attacks on your few land units without having the protection of your aircraft.

[Private-Panic]

@Fatespinner:

But they could make a combat move. Why would they make a non-combat move? Are you assuming that the way is blocked by a DD that they kill during the combat-move?

Yes Fatespinner. Both SH and I mentioned above a DD blocker. Cannot remember the sz number but it is adjacent to the Midway one. A blocker there stops the US fleet at Hawaii getting to sz6 during the combat phase.

[Fatespinner]

Ok that I should have moved there in j1.

[Elsaß-Lorraine]

It’s SZ 16

[Private-Panic]

@Fatespinner:

Ok that I should have moved there in j1.

Or during this J2 move to block a US2 move to sz6.

Often US and J swap blockers each turn in sz16 (thanks Elsass-Lorraine) and/or the Midway sz.

[taamvan]

The airbase is a great idea.  This also allows you to Strat Bomb India (and strike fleets all over the money area) though the wisdom of doing strat bomb will depend on how hard the Allies make India to take.

The remedy to the UK declaration and rush on China is to threaten India.  UK has to step back or be annihilated–you can demolish him with all your planes and boats anywhere on the coast.

The problem that is going to emerge is that you can’t let the USA blast SZ 6 (even if he can’t take out any of your major fleets or land on Japan/Korea)  because if he can kill what’s there or blocking it, he may be able to take Iwo, land in Russia or worst, cover SZ 6 from a distance, which means he can destroy the new units you lay, unless you join up with a massive relief fleet.  SZ 6 is the node for all your transports–if SZ 6 isn’t safe, your deployment and momentum stop.

He can also noncom into SZ 6 or the squares below that, blocking your ability to relieve your homeland and tearing Japan in two.  During a KJF, once japan has no SZ 6 fleet, it may not be able to coalesce what’s left into a sea defense, which leaves you with just a land turtle of infantry and fighters.  This paralyzes Japan because they can’t deploy their strength and all their efforts have to go into a homeland rescue.

If he takes Iwo, he can strat bomb you.  Japan is vulnerable esp. on turns 2-5 because its big fleet and airforce are busy trying to kill India–after that point they can split the fleets and have half of it come home.    If he gets to 50+ income, he will be able to build with USA, at parity, considering all the air assets and kamis japan starts with, and the difficulty of any direct invasion with us transports.

You just have to be careful that the USA doesn’t make SZ 6 into a dead zone before you can recall your capital ships.

[Fatespinner]

That is a good advice and something nthat is missing in most strategy guides. I wish I had known this a bit earlier. That would have made my decisions easier and my game better.

[Cow]

If I do J2 dow, I am generally leaving Japan sea zone empty while I go fetch some islands.

[simon33]

@Fatespinner:

An air base in Kwangsi would also have been useful in retrospective.

Useful but a good investment? Unlikely. Air on a CV in SZ36 can hit SZ6 too. I leave CVs in SZ36, 33 and 35 after a peaceful J1. That way all 6 planes could hit SZ6 and then also catch another 6 planes from Kwangsi, if there are that many there. The one in SZ35 is important because that means the planes can support a Phillipines assault and land on land rather than needing a CV.

I really hate letting the Allies get on the Carolines!

Regarding the airbase enabling Strat bombing - it enables escorts which are more important in Balanced Mod. These can also come in from the sea from J3 onwards.

[taamvan]

Yes, you need a DD to block that sea square, every turn, every time–then he cant attack with his ships and is stymied.

The USA counter is to get a naval base on Midway, then screening him out isn’t easy anymore he has 3 routes.  The problem with a straight cross though is that Japan builds 1:1 against you and can stalemate you with an equal fleet.

Cow is sure right, you can completely empty Japan to go get the goodies.  But, if you do you don’t ward off the USA from that region, they cross.  So at some point a fleet has to form up so he wont mess with your homeland.

Good point about escorts, I need to convert our group over to BM.  They think carolines is worthless and is a throw away for japan but I keep telling em…

[simon33]

@taamvan:

Good point about escorts, I need to convert our group over to BM.   They think carolines is worthless and is a throw away for japan but I keep telling em….

You can just take the strat bombing part of BM. You don’t need to take all of it if you don’t want to. Incorporating marines would be a problem unless you can get the pieces.

[taamvan]

I have Pacific 00’, so those Green Mean Marines have been waiting for re-deployment for years. :)