@GiddyXray:
The thing is: i have no problem putting any pressure on Germany when i don’t do Ukrain R1.
How do you keep the initiative if you’re letting the Germans escape Ukr G1? On G1 Germany can just withdraw the bulk of its forces to a E. Europe stack and start trading Ukr. while easily overwhelming the Allies in North Africa and ferrying a decent stream of units through the Middle East to ensure that India is securely in Japanese hands by J3. If you’re just sitting in Caucasus/W. Rus trading Ukr you’re giving Germany a free hand to do whatever they want elsewhere.
@GiddyXray:
For a couple of rounds Russia can keep aggressive. I would buy 2 tanks R1.
I agree.
@GiddyXray:
1 FGT R2 and 1 tank in later rounds.
I agree with the 1 TANK/turn philosophy (to keep a mobile and offensive-capable army on the board at all times), but I don’t agree with the FTR on R2. I understand that you can feasibly snipe the Mediterranean Fleet with 3 FTR (or at least sink the transport) but if a competent Germany scouts a lack of land units what’s stopping them from pouncing on Ukr, Arch or W. Rus with everything (which in turn forces Russia to bring everything to the German front, giving the Japanese a free hand to take Sink/India/Persia).
@GiddyXray:
With my 4 starting tanks i have a very potent force. In UK2 or 3 i start landing in Norway to support Russia. I don’t see how 6 fighters can stop me there.
Germany can either subsist without Norway or simply deadzone it by stacking Ukr. It’s going to take a decently large stack of Transports to pull together a large enough force to actively hold Norway.
The point of the FTR cloud isn’t to actually kill the UK Fleet (It can’t do that cost-efficiently), but to force the Fleet to remain in one place at a time (if any transports split off from the main fleet to land in far away places the FTRs and Bomber can easily wipe them out with a pretty minimal chance of a loss).
The other point of the FTR cloud is to allow Germany to commit to battles against small landing parties without having to leave as many units behind to die in the counterattack. Let me give an example:
UK amphibs into Norway, taking 2 INF/2 ART. They kill a lone INF defender without losses.
Germany sends 3 INF + 6 FTR + 1 Bomber to attack Norway (a bit of a reach, but it’s for the sake of the example so bear with me here).
Under low luck, UK gets 1 hit and a 1/3 chance at a second (INF and ART defend on a 2, 24=8, 8/6 = 1 + 1/3). Germany will get 4 hits under low luck (31 + 63 + 14 = 25, 25/6 = 4 + 1/6).
So Germany will one-shot 14 IPCs worth of material while losing 9 overall (I’m assuming that the 1-2 INF that survive will die on the following British turn when they commit another landing party). That’s pretty good value if you ask me, especially if UK is committing 100% to Europe (and losing 7+ IPCs between India/Persia/Trans-Jordan/Egypt).
@GiddyXray:
The ships in the mediteranean Sea are lost to me! The uk home fleet is quite save in the first turn. I use it as a base for my future fleet. Uk1 I build a carrier to expand the fleet. If all german units position to strike my fleet i buy more defence, or i combine with the US first! I position myself to strike the Baltic fleet at some point.
What’s your timetable for killing the Baltic, out of curiosity?
I usually try to have it dead by B2 (you can do it with a B1 FTR+Destroyer+Trans build).
Sometimes you have to delay until B3 if Germany goes with a naval opening, but in those kinds of games an aggressive USSR can usually win on its own.
@GiddyXray:
After that it is not worth loosing the fighters at a sea battle that will cost the UK a few transports at most.
I agree, but remember the whole point of the pressure is to force the UK player to spend turns investing in a navy. This buys Germany much needed time to stack aggressively in the USSR’s direction, forcing them to keep their men focused on the Germans and giving Japan time to get its IPC levels up to snuff with the Allies/put a drain on the Soviet and British Economies.
@GiddyXray:
In the mid game Germany is focused mainly on landings from the Allies. Then Russia is starting to fight off the Japanese with his tanks. Russia has an income of around 26 IPC with which it can survive the mid game easily. End game he will be under great pressure from Japan! But if the Allies have normal luck and do nothing stupid, Germany is dead or close to it!
But you’ve never inflicted a serious loss on German hardware in this scenario. All Germany has to do is build heavy INF stacks all day (with the occasional Tank thrown in to harass the Soviets), and the Allies are going to take an awfully long time to start hurting Germany.
Additionally, if Russia is sending 5-10 IPCs of Tanks East every turn what’s stopping Germany from moving the E Europe stack into Ukr and putting the Russians in a desperate situation (guarding Caucasus and W. Rus simultaneously).
@GiddyXray:
So my conclusion so far is that you sacrifice russian tanks for a chance on a german fighter, that would harm the UK a little bit. But the UK can counter this with a buy of an extra ship. In my philosophy that trade off is not so optimal.
The Ukr fight can be won pretty reliably R1 actually:
R:
3 INF (from Caucasus)
1 ART (from Caucasus)
2 TANK (1 from Caucasus, 1 from Moscow)
2 FTR (1 from Karelia, 1 from Moscow)
Vs.
G:
3 INF
1 ART
1 TANK
1 FTR
TripleA gives the Soviets an 85% chance to win with, on average, both FTRs and a lone tank surviving.
So value-wise USSR loses 23 IPC (everything but the FTR) while the Germans lose 28. A USSR win no matter how you split it.
It seems like a narrow advantage but remember the USSR gets 3 of those IPCs back by virtue of taking Ukr.
