Presidential Election (as a current event- watch the tone or it's gone)

http://obama.senate.gov/press/070130-obama_offers_pl_1/index.php

"Barack Obama’s Plan

Judgment You Can Trust

As a candidate for the United States Senate in 2002, Obama put his political career on the line to oppose going to war in Iraq, and warned of “an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs, and undetermined consequences.” Obama has been a consistent, principled and vocal opponent of the war in Iraq.

* In 2003 and 2004, he spoke out against the war on the campaign trail;
    * In 2005, he called for a phased withdrawal of our troops;
    * In 2006, he called for a timetable to remove our troops, a political solution within Iraq, and aggressive diplomacy with all of Iraq’s neighbors;
    * In January 2007, he introduced legislation in the Senate to remove all of our combat troops from Iraq by March 2008.
    * In September 2007, he laid out a detailed plan for how he will end the war as president.

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda."

I don’t think thats correct…His own site has this information

yes, the truth.

sometimes hard to stomach.

Well unless McCain can pull of a W, it looks like this is whats going to be happening because Obama is destroying Hillary.

After skimming through the last page, all I can say is that I cant believe people believe that McCain is a liberal.  He isnt a strong conservative, and is no doubt far more moderate than others in the republican party, but one of the most liberal senators ever?  Definitely not.

If the democrats want to win this then the superdelegates should all sway in favor of Obama. I feel a Clinton/McCain match up will lead to a McCain victory, but an Obama/McCain general election will probably lead to Obama.  I just think Clinton is unelectable.

I cant trust Clinton with any form of change because, if I remember correctly, shes is the second highest recipient of money from special interest groups in all of congress.  Her policies arent that different from Obama so I think my choice lies within him.

Let me rephrase, McCain is a W-Conservative.  He’s true blue when it comes to policy at home (which is the MOST IMPORTANT POLICY) and red only when it comes to hurting other people (aka: Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Croatia, whereever.)

As for Obama, you keep telling me I have to believe McCain is conservative because he is telling us he is on the current campaign trail.  Well, Obama is telling us that he has no plans to pull the troops out if he is elected, on the current campaign trail.  If we swallow the lies of one, we should swallow the lies of all.

(That also means Hillary wants to be our mommy and love us and cuddle us and name us George.)

Jen, this is straight from Obama’s campaign website:

“Obama has a plan to immediately begin withdrawing our troops engaged in combat operations at a pace of one or two brigades every month, to be completed by the end of next year.”

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

Like I said he is either Lying or an Idiot.  Which is worse?

maybe he is a lying idiot  :lol:

He goes in to more detail here:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/IraqFactSheet.pdf

He wants to pull out the troops in the secure areas first and then try to pull out the ones in the “more volatile areas”.

:roll:

Barrack Hussein Obama says whatever will get him elected. A great song and dance of words and platitudes. Good for him.

they call those people demagogues.

and,

@Imperious:

Barrack Hussein Obama says whatever will get him elected. A great song and dance of words and platitudes. Good for him.

And HIllary Clinton and John McCain aren’t?

What I’m trying to point out is that McCain’s talking a great game, but his ACTIONS are 180 degrees from the words spewing forth from his mouth like a viper vomiting its breakfast. (Which, for John McCain, I’m sure all this conservative talk IS making him very queasy.)

So if we are to take McCain on ONLY what he says in his speeches, then we should only take Obama on what HE says at HIS speeches and in HIS speeches (and interviews) he’s sworn NOT to withdraw a single soldier until well into his Presidency and only if it is self-evident that the battle has been won.

And, since you guys who support McCain don’t want to bring in voting records, then we have to assume Obama speaks gospel on this issue.

@Cmdr:

@Imperious:

Barrack Hussein Obama says whatever will get him elected. A great song and dance of words and platitudes. Good for him.

So if we are to take McCain on ONLY what he says in his speeches, then we should only take Obama on what HE says at HIS speeches and in HIS speeches (and interviews) he’s sworn NOT to withdraw a single soldier until well into his Presidency and only if it is self-evident that the battle has been won.

When did he say thiss? I’ve been followiung the election avidly, both sides, and I havent heard anything  remotely like this.

@Imperious:

Obama is not a liberal or a conservative. I think hes a Muslim which we don’t get to find out until he gets elected. Other than that he will pull out all our troops from around the world because why would he stop at Iraq? Korea, Germany, will also be vacated and the empty space will be filled with new enemies leading to strategic imbalances which will lead to war. And since hes a lover of peace he will have our enemies sign that paper for ‘peace in our time’ rather than defend our interests further eroding our positions globally.

New eneimes are going to flock to Germany if we leave and this will lead to war?

60 Minutes interview a few weeks ago.

Also, he’s pretty much said he will NOT pull out of Iraq unless it is clear we have won in just about every Democrat Debate since last October at least.

And, since we cannot possibly use their records to determine what they will do (since you McCain supporters say his record means nothing, he SAYS he will secure the border, etc, etc, etc) then obviously the fact he voted against the surge and voted for the Shush Rush letter, etc have no bearing as to how conservative or liberal he is.  Obviously, based on what the man is saying, he’s the most conservative man this nation has ever seen!

Oh, and yes, btw, I do think the Democrats have learned that pulling out of Iraq prematurely is akin to shooting themselves in the foot, politically, as it will be THEM surrendering, not Bush surrendering and that just cannot be allowed.  Thus, both Hillary and Barrack have pretty steadfastly said they will not leave Iraq until it’s won.  Edwards was not so smart, he (and Kucinich) were the only two advocating surrender and withdrawal.

And, to be perfectly honest with you, I don’t think McCain, Obama or Clinton WILL pull out of Iraq.  Not on THEIR watch.  They do NOT want to go down in history as THE President who backed down to terrorism and spawned the millennium of horror. (Not saying it would happen if they surrendered, but fear of it maybe happening is enough to stop them.)

So let’s look at the REAL issues in 2008:

Protection for the United States Flag
Gay-Marriage
Legalization of Marijuana
Immigration <===Probably the biggest one and one McCain and Clinton have carbon copy solutions too
Appointment of two Supreme Court Justices, potentially
Cumbersome restrictions on business to curb green house gases, though no proof that these gases are truly the culprit
Gay Adoption Privileges
Religious Observance of Holidays in Public
Health Insurance <===If Immigration isn’t biggest, this one is.

On the two biggest issues, Obama has McCain down cold.  He wants to force illegals to get documented and pass standard immigration tests or leave.  McCain wants to give them amnesty, though he’s willing to put up a token border security in the form of a chain-link fence, provided it doesn’t cost too much.

Obama also wants to allow you to pick your health insurance provider and only the truly destitute would get free coverage from the government, which is okay, since we already HAVE THAT.  It’s called Medicare and Medicaid.  McCain has Hillary’s plan in mind, screw the health insurance industry, confiscate the insurance providers and drive out all the pharmaceuticals and talented doctors in a half-baked plan to provide everyone with health insurance. (Forgetting this plan has failed everywhere it has been tried, mind you.)

I don’t really enjoy Barry’s plan, but ya know what, it’s better then Madam Clinton or Mr. POW’s plans!

Furthermore, I don’t think Barry has the clout in Washington to actually succeed.  Thus, his first term in office will hopefully be a complete flop and he can turn out to be another Carter.  This will allow the Republicans to come to their fracking senses and find a d@mn conservative in 2012 to run against the do nothing Obama!

And, if all that isn’t enough, at least Obama is a muslim!  He should have more clout with the terrorists then a Christian who they can demonize as a crusader.  Can’t exactly be a muslim crusader, right?  That’s called just being an insurrectionist, or insurgent or something.  But I can tell ya this, Muslims are not what you think of when you see pictures of the Knights Templar!

McCain is the only guy who is saying : 100 years of occupation. Thats totally unique from the others. its as far as B. Hussein Obama can be.

New enemies are going to flock to Germany if we leave and this will lead to war?

Yes France could start another European war ( 1798-1815,1870,1914,1940), Russia can reform her empire and rebuild past glory and take back lost territory (1905,1914-18,1939,1945,1948,1980).

History goes in cycles. Modern History does not mean war is no longer fought. It will always be true.

as for Obama, you keep telling me I have to believe McCain is conservative because he is telling us he is on the current campaign trail.  Well, Obama is telling us that he has no plans to pull the troops out if he is elected, on the current campaign trail.  If we swallow the lies of one, we should swallow the lies of all.

To my understanding, Barack Obamas website is lying and he will stay in Iraq, according to about a billion other sources.  Also Ive heard rumblings about his not-so-peaceful intentions with pakistan.  If this was at all directed towards me and youre saying I refuse to ‘swallow the lies’ of only one candidate, then Im pretty sure youre wrong on that.

On important issues, i believe the 2 biggest issues in america, while taking into account that the war in iraq is a moot point, i agree with you in that immigration and healthcare will define this election.

History goes in cycles. Modern History does not mean war is no longer fought. It will always be true.

I reaaaaaly doubt that pulling out of Germany would lead to conflict.  Name one group that can be considered an enemy that is being suppressed by our forces in germany.  Korea I can see, but not really in germany.

Also, w hat does everyone here th ink about Ron Paul?  He has no shot, but a lot of his policies have appealed to me, especially on social issues.  Even if I disagree on some of his stances, theres no doubt that he sticks close to the constitution.

@Cobert:

Also, w hat does everyone here th ink about Ron Paul?

Ron Paul has his own thread…

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11036.0

…but it kept getting derailed on other topics. ~ZP

@Cmdr:

60 Minutes interview a few weeks ago.

Also, he’s pretty much said he will NOT pull out of Iraq unless it is clear we have won in just about every Democrat Debate since last October at least.

And, since we cannot possibly use their records to determine what they will do (since you McCain supporters say his record means nothing, he SAYS he will secure the border, etc, etc, etc) then obviously the fact he voted against the surge and voted for the Shush Rush letter, etc have no bearing as to how conservative or liberal he is.  Obviously, based on what the man is saying, he’s the most conservative man this nation has ever seen!

This is a direct quote fomr the 60 minutes interview:

"“At a time when American casualties are down, at a time when the violence is down, particularly affecting the Iraqi population, is that the right time to try and set time tables for withdrawing all American troops? I mean you talked about…the end of 2009,” Kroft remarked.

“Yeah, absolutely. I think now is precisely the time. I think that it is very important for us to send a clear signal to the Iraqis that we are not gonna be here permanently. We’re not gonna set up permanent bases. That they are going to have to resolve their differences and get their country functioning,” Obama said."

that doesnt sound anything like what you’re talking about. it sounds like the opposite.

to echo the person above me, its a stretch to think our soldiers in Germany are stopping France (of all countries) dreams of world domination. our presence in Europe is an anachronism.

Also, Barak is an admitted Christian, sworn into office on a Bible. if hes a Muslim, hes probably not going to get all those virgins by constantly lying about his religion.