Presidential Election (as a current event- watch the tone or it's gone)

[Smacktard]

@Cmdr:

@Imperious:

Barrack Hussein Obama says whatever will get him elected. A great song and dance of words and platitudes. Good for him.

So if we are to take McCain on ONLY what he says in his speeches, then we should only take Obama on what HE says at HIS speeches and in HIS speeches (and interviews) he’s sworn NOT to withdraw a single soldier until well into his Presidency and only if it is self-evident that the battle has been won.

When did he say thiss? I’ve been followiung the election avidly, both sides, and I havent heard anything  remotely like this.

[Smacktard]

@Imperious:

Obama is not a liberal or a conservative. I think hes a Muslim which we don’t get to find out until he gets elected. Other than that he will pull out all our troops from around the world because why would he stop at Iraq? Korea, Germany, will also be vacated and the empty space will be filled with new enemies leading to strategic imbalances which will lead to war. And since hes a lover of peace he will have our enemies sign that paper for ‘peace in our time’ rather than defend our interests further eroding our positions globally.

New eneimes are going to flock to Germany if we leave and this will lead to war?

[Jennifer]

60 Minutes interview a few weeks ago.

Also, he’s pretty much said he will NOT pull out of Iraq unless it is clear we have won in just about every Democrat Debate since last October at least.

And, since we cannot possibly use their records to determine what they will do (since you McCain supporters say his record means nothing, he SAYS he will secure the border, etc, etc, etc) then obviously the fact he voted against the surge and voted for the Shush Rush letter, etc have no bearing as to how conservative or liberal he is.  Obviously, based on what the man is saying, he’s the most conservative man this nation has ever seen!

[Jennifer]

Oh, and yes, btw, I do think the Democrats have learned that pulling out of Iraq prematurely is akin to shooting themselves in the foot, politically, as it will be THEM surrendering, not Bush surrendering and that just cannot be allowed.  Thus, both Hillary and Barrack have pretty steadfastly said they will not leave Iraq until it’s won.  Edwards was not so smart, he (and Kucinich) were the only two advocating surrender and withdrawal.

And, to be perfectly honest with you, I don’t think McCain, Obama or Clinton WILL pull out of Iraq.  Not on THEIR watch.  They do NOT want to go down in history as THE President who backed down to terrorism and spawned the millennium of horror. (Not saying it would happen if they surrendered, but fear of it maybe happening is enough to stop them.)

So let’s look at the REAL issues in 2008:

Protection for the United States Flag
Gay-Marriage
Legalization of Marijuana
Immigration <===Probably the biggest one and one McCain and Clinton have carbon copy solutions too
Appointment of two Supreme Court Justices, potentially
Cumbersome restrictions on business to curb green house gases, though no proof that these gases are truly the culprit
Gay Adoption Privileges
Religious Observance of Holidays in Public
Health Insurance <===If Immigration isn’t biggest, this one is.

On the two biggest issues, Obama has McCain down cold.  He wants to force illegals to get documented and pass standard immigration tests or leave.  McCain wants to give them amnesty, though he’s willing to put up a token border security in the form of a chain-link fence, provided it doesn’t cost too much.

Obama also wants to allow you to pick your health insurance provider and only the truly destitute would get free coverage from the government, which is okay, since we already HAVE THAT.  It’s called Medicare and Medicaid.  McCain has Hillary’s plan in mind, screw the health insurance industry, confiscate the insurance providers and drive out all the pharmaceuticals and talented doctors in a half-baked plan to provide everyone with health insurance. (Forgetting this plan has failed everywhere it has been tried, mind you.)

I don’t really enjoy Barry’s plan, but ya know what, it’s better then Madam Clinton or Mr. POW’s plans!

Furthermore, I don’t think Barry has the clout in Washington to actually succeed.  Thus, his first term in office will hopefully be a complete flop and he can turn out to be another Carter.  This will allow the Republicans to come to their fracking senses and find a d@mn conservative in 2012 to run against the do nothing Obama!

And, if all that isn’t enough, at least Obama is a muslim!  He should have more clout with the terrorists then a Christian who they can demonize as a crusader.  Can’t exactly be a muslim crusader, right?  That’s called just being an insurrectionist, or insurgent or something.  But I can tell ya this, Muslims are not what you think of when you see pictures of the Knights Templar!

[Imperious Leader]

McCain is the only guy who is saying : 100 years of occupation. Thats totally unique from the others. its as far as B. Hussein Obama can be.

New enemies are going to flock to Germany if we leave and this will lead to war?

Yes France could start another European war ( 1798-1815,1870,1914,1940), Russia can reform her empire and rebuild past glory and take back lost territory (1905,1914-18,1939,1945,1948,1980).

History goes in cycles. Modern History does not mean war is no longer fought. It will always be true.

[Cobert]

as for Obama, you keep telling me I have to believe McCain is conservative because he is telling us he is on the current campaign trail.  Well, Obama is telling us that he has no plans to pull the troops out if he is elected, on the current campaign trail.  If we swallow the lies of one, we should swallow the lies of all.

To my understanding, Barack Obamas website is lying and he will stay in Iraq, according to about a billion other sources.  Also Ive heard rumblings about his not-so-peaceful intentions with pakistan.  If this was at all directed towards me and youre saying I refuse to ‘swallow the lies’ of only one candidate, then Im pretty sure youre wrong on that.

On important issues, i believe the 2 biggest issues in america, while taking into account that the war in iraq is a moot point, i agree with you in that immigration and healthcare will define this election.

History goes in cycles. Modern History does not mean war is no longer fought. It will always be true.

I reaaaaaly doubt that pulling out of Germany would lead to conflict.  Name one group that can be considered an enemy that is being suppressed by our forces in germany.  Korea I can see, but not really in germany.

Also, w hat does everyone here th ink about Ron Paul?  He has no shot, but a lot of his policies have appealed to me, especially on social issues.  Even if I disagree on some of his stances, theres no doubt that he sticks close to the constitution.

[Zero Pilot]

@Cobert:

Also, w hat does everyone here th ink about Ron Paul?

Ron Paul has his own thread…

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11036.0

…but it kept getting derailed on other topics. ~ZP

[Smacktard]

@Cmdr:

60 Minutes interview a few weeks ago.

Also, he’s pretty much said he will NOT pull out of Iraq unless it is clear we have won in just about every Democrat Debate since last October at least.

And, since we cannot possibly use their records to determine what they will do (since you McCain supporters say his record means nothing, he SAYS he will secure the border, etc, etc, etc) then obviously the fact he voted against the surge and voted for the Shush Rush letter, etc have no bearing as to how conservative or liberal he is.  Obviously, based on what the man is saying, he’s the most conservative man this nation has ever seen!

This is a direct quote fomr the 60 minutes interview:

"“At a time when American casualties are down, at a time when the violence is down, particularly affecting the Iraqi population, is that the right time to try and set time tables for withdrawing all American troops? I mean you talked about…the end of 2009,” Kroft remarked.

“Yeah, absolutely. I think now is precisely the time. I think that it is very important for us to send a clear signal to the Iraqis that we are not gonna be here permanently. We’re not gonna set up permanent bases. That they are going to have to resolve their differences and get their country functioning,” Obama said."

that doesnt sound anything like what you’re talking about. it sounds like the opposite.

[Smacktard]

to echo the person above me, its a stretch to think our soldiers in Germany are stopping France (of all countries) dreams of world domination. our presence in Europe is an anachronism.

Also, Barak is an admitted Christian, sworn into office on a Bible. if hes a Muslim, hes probably not going to get all those virgins by constantly lying about his religion.

[Imperious Leader]

Name one group that can be considered an enemy that is being suppressed by our forces in germany.  Korea I can see, but not really in germany.

Im looking in the future. Once you lose those bases they don’t come back. In 30 years a cloned Napoleon may show up and start another Imperial Guard, Also, Russia can get in a war with China in 50 years and it may involve Europe.

Because we cant see trouble brewing does not mean “pull everybody out” and go home. Korea was 50 years ago and we still need forces to protect against weirdos in the north.

Heck we may go to war with Mexico. we are already invaded…one day they may just say “you know those states you stole from us in 1850’s are now Mexican territories” Think of how many Taco Bells and Pollo Locos would close and the trouble that would cause.

[dezrtfish]

@Cmdr:

Oh, and yes, btw, I do think the Democrats have learned that pulling out of Iraq prematurely is akin to shooting themselves in the foot, politically, as it will be THEM surrendering, not Bush surrendering and that just cannot be allowed.  Thus, both Hillary and Barrack have pretty steadfastly said they will not leave Iraq until it’s won.  Edwards was not so smart, he (and Kucinich) were the only two advocating surrender and withdrawal.

That is simply not true.  Obama has said time and again “16 months” I watched the California debate, did you?  Obama said “I will have the troops out in 16 months.”  He also said that Hillary won’t pull them out fast enough.

@Cmdr:

And, to be perfectly honest with you, I don’t think McCain, Obama or Clinton WILL pull out of Iraq.  Not on THEIR watch.  They do NOT want to go down in history as THE President who backed down to terrorism and spawned the millennium of horror. (Not saying it would happen if they surrendered, but fear of it maybe happening is enough to stop them.)

It doesn’t realy matter what you think, Obama is the only current presidential contender who has given a specific time table for withdrawal from Iraq.

@Cmdr:

So let’s look at the REAL issues in 2008:

Protection for the United States Flag  wtf are you talking about?
Gay-Marriage  True Conservatives believe this is wrong, true republicans believe it’s a states rights issue, just like McCain
Legalization of Marijuana not going to happen, not an issue
Immigration <===Probably the biggest one and one McCain and Clinton have carbon copy solutions too Am I the only one that read Obamas plan?  It’s the same as everyone elses,  They are all using the same plan, the same one that McCain tryied to push through last year.  Obamas plan = pay a fine, take a test, get in line = Amnesty (acording to Rush, Hanity etc) = McCain Plan
Appointment of two Supreme Court Justices, potentially  Obama = Liberal Justice McCain = Conservative Justice
Cumbersome restrictions on business to curb green house gases, though no proof that these gases are truly the culprit 
Obama on environment:
12/14/2007 Farm, Nutrition, and Bioenergy Act of 2007 (Farm Bill) NV
12/13/2007 Energy Act of 2007 NV
12/11/2007 Government Sponsored Farm Insurance Policies Amendment NV
11/08/2007 Water Resources Development Act of 2007 NV
06/21/2007 Energy Act of 2007 Y
06/21/2007 Alternative Energy Subsidies  Y
06/14/2007 Offshore Drilling in Virginia NV
06/14/2007 Clean Energy Achievement Criteria Y
12/21/2005 Removal of ANWR Provision from HR 2863 Y
11/03/2005 ANWR Amendment Y
09/13/2005 EPA’s Clean Air Mercury Rule Y
Obama is just a "green as any other democrat, thats what the majoraty want these days because of idiots like gore
Gay Adoption Privileges  See gay marriage
Religious Observance of Holidays in Public  See gay marriage
Health Insurance <===If Immigration isn’t biggest, this one is.
Again the huge advantage you seem to think Obama has here is that he is saying the same thing McCain is!  If you want to compare voteing records, Obama should get some more voting time in, McCain Represents my state I Know his voting record, it’s in the paper and on the news all the time.  I also know his poicies.  He is more central than I am, but Arizona is one of the most conservative states in the country

On the two biggest issues, Obama has McCain down cold.  He wants to force illegals to get documented and pass standard immigration tests or leave.  McCain wants to give them amnesty, though he’s willing to put up a token border security in the form of a chain-link fence, provided it doesn’t cost too much.

Obama also wants to allow you to pick your health insurance provider and only the truly destitute would get free coverage from the government, which is okay, since we already HAVE THAT.  It’s called Medicare and Medicaid.  McCain has Hillary’s plan in mind, screw the health insurance industry, confiscate the insurance providers and drive out all the pharmaceuticals and talented doctors in a half-baked plan to provide everyone with health insurance. (Forgetting this plan has failed everywhere it has been tried, mind you.)
Not true
I don’t really enjoy Barry’s plan, but ya know what, it’s better then Madam Clinton or Mr. POW’s plans!

Furthermore, I don’t think Barry has the clout in Washington to actually succeed.  Thus, his first term in office will hopefully be a complete flop and he can turn out to be another Carter.  This will allow the Republicans to come to their fracking senses and find a d@mn conservative in 2012 to run against the do nothing Obama!

And, if all that isn’t enough, at least Obama is a muslim!  He should have more clout with the terrorists then a Christian who they can demonize as a crusader.  Can’t exactly be a muslim crusader, right?  That’s called just being an insurrectionist, or insurgent or something.  But I can tell ya this, Muslims are not what you think of when you see pictures of the Knights Templar!

Jen you make my head hurt, I need a motrin and a nap.  Chickens are Chickens Ducks are Ducks and Obama is one of the most liberal democrats in the government.  McCain is a states rights conservative Republican.  And you listen to the radio too much…

[Cobert]

@Imperious:

Name one group that can be considered an enemy that is being suppressed by our forces in germany.  Korea I can see, but not really in germany.

Im looking in the future. Once you lose those bases they don’t come back. In 30 years a cloned Napoleon may show up and start another Imperial Guard, Also, Russia can get in a war with China in 50 years and it may involve Europe.

Because we cant see trouble brewing does not mean “pull everybody out” and go home. Korea was 50 years ago and we still need forces to protect against weirdos in the north.

Heck we may go to war with Mexico. we are already invaded…one day they may just say “you know those states you stole from us in 1850’s are now Mexican territories” Think of how many Taco Bells and Pollo Locos would close and the trouble that would cause.

In 50 years I could very well see the war with China occuring, except with any number of nations (including the united states).

[dezrtfish]

Well Guliani then Thompson and now Romney are Endorsing McCain, In a few more days Huckabee will too.  As soon as McCain officialy hits the 1190 the Huckster will drop out and suport McCain.

That’s all predictable, what I didn’t see coming was the speculation of VP Condi  :-o

[Jennifer]

So, Smaktard, what you are saying is that after all violence has ended we SHOULD set up permanent bases in Iraq?  Cause what Obama said was that we should leave when the violence has fallen and NOT set up Permanent bases.

I have no problem with that.  He did not say he’d leave when he gets in office, like some of you are inferring or outright saying.

Also, M36, you CANNOT look at his voting record!  We are only believing what these people say, that’s why McCain gets to count as a conservative.  His voting record for the past decade is barely centrist (before 2000 he was pretty conservative) but he SAYS he is conservative.  Since we are to believe that, then we also have to believe every promise the two democrats are giving us about not leaving Iraq until it’s over, not encumbering the American people with worthless and regressive taxes on carbon emissions, not giving amnesties, etc.

If you believe the lies of one, you must believe the lies of all.

(BTW, if you do the math on John McCain, his conservative rating for the past 8 years is actually only like 40%, no where near the 82% being touted.  It’s only if you go over his ENTIRE LIFE (including military service) that you get up to 82%.)

[Imperious Leader]

If B. Hussein Obama went against his stated policy on his own website, he would be taken to task for being a total fraud. Its indefensible to have one policy before your elected in order to get elected, then 180’ and say well …. " i guess we are staying for 50 Years after all" he would be totally railroaded out of the states or sent to St. Helena in exile.

[Jennifer]

Senator Obama has made a campaign of basically saying nothing.  His website is a joke.  He can easily say that it has been unupdated for a long time and the guy who originally put it together was fired or reprimanded, or whatever.

I mean hell, look at the Clintons, they said a lot of things that were patently untrue, and continue to do so, and their votes have never mattered.  McCain slandered Romney for months even though he was called on it and it was proven he was lying about Romney, and that hasn’t sunk his chances.

No, we cannot believe anything these people do, only what they say in their speeches, and as such, Obama is the most conservative candidate running for office. Who cares about silly things like how they vote!?!?  Obviously not Republicans cause we just put McCain up for the job!

[Guest]

Just a couple of quick points…

1.  Al Queda has said repeatedly that the MAIN reason they attacked the United States was because of our bases in Saudi.  If you believe that, then the US would need to pull out of the Arab nations to preclude future attacks.  Personally I think it is naive, but what Muslim attacks occurred on the United States or its citizens or soldiers that were not DIRECTLY related to US military presence in the Middle East, at least attacks since the Treaty of Tripoli in 1789?  Bear in mind that US Foreign policy in the Middle East from the 1960’s forward has been a COMPLETE violation of the Treaty of Tripoli, showing the United States to be less than honorable, in the long term, to their obligations and promises.

2.  The Monroe Doctrine WORKED.

[Guest]

In case anyone missed it…

Romney HAS ENDORSED McCain!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080215/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_romney_37

I think that leaves only Rush, Laura Ingram and Jen as Conservatives not backing McCain (Hannity is already moving in that direction…)

I told you folks that Abortion would be the lynch pin to galvanize Conservative backing of McCain.  Now when are y’all going to realize that I know what I am talking about (this is about the 9th straight prediction that I have called correctly… )

[balungaloaf]

if obama and hillary join tickets, i regretfully say they will probably win the election.  as a rockstar team that gets all the energetic good press.  of course the press is energized, its their party that they want to talk up.

if that doesnt happen, McCain has 3 great options for vp.  well 4 or 5 actually.

1. of course huckabee.  but this is the least helpful

2. forbes.  he would solidify anyone caring about the economy.

3. petraeus.  talk about the saftey of america ticket.  2 war hero’s.

4.  condi rice.  a black AND female vp.  trumps the democrats pandering immediately.

5.  the best one.  COLIN POWELL.  nuff said.

[Pervavita]

Petraeus is still active duty and can’t run, although he can retire but i doupt he would.
that aside i think Petraeus dosn’t add much to the ticket. McCain is strong in all the areas Petaeus would add strength to.
Powell is the same but has a little more advantages.
Huckabee would help, but i don’t know if enough.
Forbes i dout would join in the race no matter who was running. McCain i doupt could pull him if he begged.
Rice, don’t get me wrong, but she is under qualified. she was under qualified for Secritary of State and didn’t do a great job at it. good but not great. she is a skilled woman and a good woman (or person but that just sounds ocword to say), she just dosn’t have what it takes IMO. although she would as you say destroy the D ticket of 1st woman or black press via racal or gender descrimination.

Mitt is still a viable option although i doupt that will happen as both men seamed to want to kill each other durring the debates. but had they been more friendly with each other i think it would be viable and work well as it would give McCain more credability on the economy and also would give him a strong run.

if you look at numbers before Mitt droped out he was winning about as many people as McCain. it’s those stupid (and i thought stupid before Florida went to McCain way back when it looked to go to Guliani) winner take all states. i think they are the worse thing for a primary. i’m not a fan of the way the pres election is winner take all on each state ether, but the Primaries i think it’s worse. Winner take all at any state in both primary and general is stupid IMO. realy i live in WA state, we are a strong blue state. my only vote that counted for this election was in the primary as there is no way that a Republican will win this state in the general election. but atleast if the states were perportanal our votes would have some effect on the election.