Right, you count on a single J1 move, and ignore the impact of a J1 IC.
Even if you trap Japan to Japan in USA3 or 4 (more like 5-6 if you head to EI etc. first) then Japan still ahve about 20-30 divisions in Asia. And that is more than enough to skew the Russia battle to be over long before Tokyo falls. In fact, I would expect GERMAN ARM in Manch and FIC before the US can think about tha tfinal strike…
Yes, it is cripple Japan first.
With Operation torch by UK and US T1 UK can handle Africa alone. And afterwards the US goes island hopping. Just keep tthe Indian fleet alive until they may merge with the american and japan is cornered
But you just can;t cripple Japan THAT fast, not without a full scale KJF in play.
J1: Japan expands AT LEAST to $32 IPC (China). They lose no income Turn 1
J2: Bury falls (worst case that is ALL that falls). Now $33. USA fleet is moves to Solomons (1 BB, 1 TRN, 1 DST, USA1 Build)
J3: SFE/Yakut fall. Japan now at $35. J1 Manch IC has produced 6 divisions in Asia, TRNs have sent 14 more divisions. USA takes NG and EI
J4: Japan has $35 cash, 3 more divisions built in Asia, 6 more transported. Evenk/Novo fall. $32. SUBs have been being added into the mix sicne J2. Borneo falls to USA.
J5. 9 more divisions to Asia. Another SUB. FIGs palced on existing AC’s. Sinkiang falls (if it has not already fallen). $34. USA goes to either Phillipines or FIC.
J6: Fleet Battle USA/Japan, or if the fleet was reinforced, Japan just stays in SZ60. 3 more divisions in Asia IC. Tokyo stacking underway. Japan collects $31
Japan now has 41 divisions in Asia, plus what they started with (less losses while destroying Russian and US forces earlier). That is a LOT of fodder to work over Moscow with, especially in a 1-2-3 punch of Germany/Japan/Germany
And notice that I was very conservative as Japan. I did not pre-emptive strike the US fleet at Solomons; I assumed India was too tough a nut to crack and so just holdign in FIC, slow strike on Sinkiang due to Russia stacking, etc.
Yes, it is cripple Japan first.
With Operation torch by UK and US T1 UK can handle Africa alone. And afterwards the US goes island hopping. Just keep tthe Indian fleet alive until they may merge with the american and japan is cornered
I don’t hope this isn’t a stupid question but what is Operation torch? How does uk help best in a kjf?
@Dr.:
Yes, it is cripple Japan first.
With Operation torch by UK and US T1 UK can handle Africa alone. And afterwards the US goes island hopping. Just keep tthe Indian fleet alive until they may merge with the american and japan is corneredI don’t hope this isn’t a stupid question but what is Operation torch? How does uk help best in a kjf?
thats like the invasion of Algeria. the UK has a small feet of India an can mess with the Japanese. the units in Africa and Egypt can make there away to India where they can be useful. I F the UK can hold India they can be very helpful.
I would be concerned with the UK trying to cover both norway to reinforce Russia and delving into Africa on their own. They would have to take out the German Med navy and hold it against new builds. I think that they would have to focus on one or the other and either leave Russia alone for 3-5 turns or give up Africa. Without the Americans into Africa, I think UK’s divided punch is too weak in Africa.
I think you give up Africa and hold Germany back until the US contains Jap….
But with the American forces already on the board they can send up to 3 shipments to Afr, if needed, without buying anything for the Atlantic.
UK/US can merge at Sz 8 on rd 1, then rd 2 both UK and US can go heavy to Alg and they can do so again on Rd 3, which means you land in Nor on Rd 4.
This means Russia is on her own for the first 4 turns (maybe some Allied air help). But I like to station a lot of UK forces in Per and retreat the US forces to Kaz, just in case.
But to me this seems do-able for the Russians. Assuming avg dice you can trade Ukr for the first 3 turns, possibly more, with your original troops and 3 buys of inf and arm on R1-3.
You also have UK reinforcements in Per/Ind that can move to Cauc and US troops in Sin that can fall back as well.
Use the FIGs at first, and later the BOM for punch.
You are still in the 40’s for units (50 something total).
Hell of a lot of fodder for Russia to deal with…
And if the FIGs move in 1 turn before the main strike on Russia, then USA can kill the Jap fleet. So Japan just stacks Japan, helps knock out Russia, and stands off the Americans after Moscow is TOAST… assuming hte US in in perfect position to strike the Jap fleet the round that Russia falls…
The US CAN start getting troops to Asia. They can reach FIC with 1 BB, 1 TRN by USA 3…
IF there is no Japan presence left after Pearl
IF Japan does not attack those ships along the way
IF the 2 units on that TRN do not die taking islands along the way.
Then yes, there would be 2 US INF in FIC for Japan to deal with on J4.
More likely is that on US1 is the Pearl Counter, and building 1 or more TRNs on US1 to replace the one sunk on the Pearl Counter. And of course other ships to protect the fleet. If the US goes 100% Pacific on USA1, THEN the US might actually have 6 units to FIC for Japan to deal with on J5
But since I am not likely to let that fleet through unmolested, and since all Japan has to do is kill the TRN’s to stop the flow of troops…
Even with an IC for Japan on J1, I don’t see Japan doing much to turn the tide of battle. All I see is an accellerated German advance because Russia’s sending 1 or 2 Infnatry in the other direction to block the max 3 Japan can build on the mainland. With no transports, Japan’s not sending squat for assistance.
So go for it. A J1 IC just means America saves 15 IPCs cause they don’t have to build it.
BTW, I’d say primary duty is sinking the Jap fleet and blockading Japan. You can dispatch 2 transports, 3 Infantry, 1 Armor to pick off islands after that.
Supply hain logistics is the flaw in the Big Gulp.
You can;t keep a filled supplt line protected all across the Pacific. And to build up for that one decisive battle, you are going to lose your initial wave of TRNs doing it.
So… you take a few turns, you build up your fleet, and then after 3-5 turns of pure US PAcific Naval builds, you sink the Japan fleet.
NOW you can start to build replacement TRN’s (1 turn) and sail them across the Pacific (2 more turns) to have an impact. Try to add the TRNs in the rear areas before the fleet is gone, and they get SUNK before they get past Pearl.
No matter how you slice it, Japan has AT LEAST 6 turns before the US can bring their might to bear in any meaningful way. And with just 1 new IC and 3 new TRNs, Japan is dropping 11 units a turn into Asia from J3 forward (2 in J1 w/ 1 TRN; 9 in J2 with 3 at IC, 6 via TRN; 11 J3+ after teh 4th TRN is built in J2), so call it 55 NEW divisions, plus 7 to start…
SIXTY TWO DIVISIONS
Even with all INF, that is still a heack of an issue for Russia that will have produced only 40-50 new divisions in 6 turns… and has German as well as Japan forces to deal with.
You could build an IC on borneo? ( the 4 ipc island ) and go from there. Your fleet when equal should not focus on destruction of the japanese fleet but to take their IPCs and get out of the water ( build ground troops ).
Taking some japanese islands makes it annoying for japan because there are 11 ipcs on just 3 islands and with an equal fleet from the US they cant split their fleet. Now 8 units for a 4 ipc island of 8 units to the mainland becomes the question if they do both they lose half their fleet :D
Correctomundo.
The US doesn’t need to engage the Japanese fleet, just force it back to Sz 60/61.
Once the US moves to the Solomons this should be the case, otherwise Japan’s home island is in danger (or the US made a mistake).
At the time of the move to Sol, the US should have more ships in Sz 55 as well (those that were just bought).
It makes a Japan strike on the Sol ships futile, since best case would be killing the US trns while J either:
1) kills it own trns as fodder,
2) bought extra fodder ships, or
3) losses aircraft/or higher priced ships in the attack
(none of these are particularly appealing and all slow the push on Mos)
but the US already has reinforcements and can easily resupply and Japan cannot. Or if Japan does resupply that means less and less troops to Asia.
You don’t want to really engage the Japanese fleet until you have EI, Bor, and/or Phil.
And if you kept your UK fleet alive, then when the US moves to Bor or EI, the UK follows up with a trn, dd, ac (or whatever is left) to help bolster the defense of the American fleet.
No matter how good Japan is doing the loss of 11-12+ Island IPC means Japan needs: bury, sfe, yak, chi, sin, ind, eve, novo, kaz just to come out +3-4 IPC and holding Ind is questionable with the US/UK at EI.
US earns ~50, Japan ~35. And with 2-3 island ICs on Bor and EI (possibly Phil) Japan is in serious danger regardless of the status of Moscow.
Japan can only place 8 (even if they earn 40+) while the US will be able to get more than that into the theatre.
Yet, with the Jap Fleet in SZ60/61, the force flow to Asia is still laregely uneffected… at least until Japan’s income REALLY drops. But that takes time, since while the US is gaining islands, Japan is gaining Asia.
All Japan has to do is maintian enough force to keep Russia’s income down, and a solid follow-up attack threat on Moscow. With the US in the Pacific, Germany will be the one doing the 1 & 3 parts of the 1-2-3 punch.
what if Russia sends 1 fig to India carrier, UK joins up it´s fleet in SZ30 and builds a IC on Australia? (and US all out Vs Japan)
Then I send a wave of German land forces into Russia, NO naval purchases, and just overwhelm the Soviets in about 4 turns.
With a FIG gone, I may even take a stab at Caucuses on G1 while I reinvest Ukraine HEAVY, and stack in Karelia.
Early force shifts in Europe have huge long term effects.
Switch,
I think you are making a gross error in your analysis. America doesn’t have to protect them across the entire Pacific, just across the Bearing Straits into the Far Eastern States of Russia.
Once you eliminate Japan from the mainland by building a fleet so defensive they cannot hope to stop it, you can begin to worry about massing enough to defeat his fleet and taking islands.
Once you eliminate Japan from the mainland by building a fleet so defensive they cannot hope to stop it,
how long will that take? and what is germany diong. if Japan is super agressive then it doesn’t matter.
Jen, see above where I psoted the speed with which the US can get to Asia…
@ncscswitch:
All Japan has to do is maintian enough force to keep Russia’s income down, and a solid follow-up attack threat on Moscow. With the US in the Pacific, Germany will be the one doing the 1 & 3 parts of the 1-2-3 punch.
I guess my strategies are a lot different then most people, when I attack Moscow there is no 1-2-3 punch, maybe a 1-2 punch but mostly just a 1 punch from Japan that wipes them out :-D but that’s how I plan it.
