@didier_de_dax said in Can submarines move through enemey channals like the suez Channel in combat move:
Hey @Trig,
At first, thank you for your detailed answer and for taking the time to do it.
I agree with Trig’s long, detailed post, 4 above this one.
I understand that orders maters and that all units attacking in different combats don’t move at the same time.
Agreed.
If I understand it well, for example: a japan fleet attacks an FEC navy (near Australia) by passing thought an ANZAC navy, it create a state of war between the two opponents when the Japanese fleet is in the same sea zone as the FEC (because Japan did not tell is intention before). And after that, the Japanese player also announces that he will conduct a land battle against FEC in Burma. The combats are then resolves in the order of the attacking player (Japan here).
But if the Japanese player announces the land combat in Burma (creating a state of war between the two opponents) before announcing the naval battle with the FEC. Then, the naval battle with FEC is stopped by the ANZAC navy and the naval battle between Japan and ANZAC takes places instead of the one with FEC.
This is true. You have it correct.
Or maybe the screening force rules could be use there? One part of the Japan fleet fight with the ANZAC and the other part fight with the FEC? Even if there isn’t naval invasion occurring.
(I think that the screening forces rules didn’t happen there, but I prefer to make sure, so I ask).
In the 2nd situation where Japan declared war with the movement into Burma, the Japanese fleet can choose to engage the ANZAC fleet with a screening force and hold the other naval units out to proceed on to engage the FEC fleet if the screening force succeeds against the ANZAC fleet.
Then, you say that the player should announce what is he doing with his fleet, each time that he enter a new sea zone right? (not at the beginning of the move).
Correct.
So, during the combat move phase, the attacking player move his fleet on the same sea zone as his opponent, he announce that he will conduct a blockade (for example) on an enemy naval base in another sea zone (the naval base should be controlled by a nation which the attacking player is already at war before the start of the movement or he could also be a naval base controlled by the player who will defend against the attacking fleet?).
You don’t have to be at war before the start of the movement. You could be at peace and pass through other fleets or a canal, then enter the sea zone where you will blockade. At the moment you enter that last sea zone where you will blockade, the attacker has to announce intent first and that blockade announcement will be a declaration of war.
But this only works if there is a trade route to raid, to escort, or a naval base to blockade in a sea zone within the range of the navy, right? Or not necessarily?
Well, the examples you give do work, but I disagree with your use of “only”. There are other things you could also do. For example, you could attack another naval fleet or do other hostile things like an amphibious invasion. It even works if the defending player has a plane on MAP in that sea zone and the defender could declare war on you!
I think I understand your confusion. You feel like you need permission from the “rules” to be allowed to move a unit during combat movement. That isn’t how I think about it. I think about it as the defending player is giving the attacking player permission to move during combat movement. When you are not a war with a particular potential defending force, you need to move during combat movement if the defending player might declare war on you to prevent your further movement or you might declare war at the end of your movement.
I totally agree that in version 4 of the rules, we should strive for clarity on whether my understanding of the way it should work is correct. In my conceptualization, even if you were just moving through the Suez canal when you are not at war with the Commonwealth, it would happen during the combat movement phase because you would enter sea zone 81 and announce, “I intend to move through the Suez canal into sea zone 82. Do you declare war and stop me?” But this is just how I conceptualize it.
Let’s take a concrete example to understand my question better: (I will try to upload an image of this situation to make it more clear).
The Japanese player wants to attack a US destroyer in sea zone 42 with its destroyer that are in sea zone 56 (bay of Tokyo, so they benefits from the +1 naval movement of the major port in the sea zone). US and Japan are not already at war.
So, during the combat phase, he intended to pass by the sea zone 39, 40 that contains two US destroyers and 41, before finally entering in sea zone 42 at fight the US destroyer that is alone and so declares war.
In order to pass the two destroyers that are in sea zone 40 without fighting, he has to pretend that he will raid, escort on a naval route or blockade a naval base. The problem is that there isn’t such trade routes or naval facilities within the range of the two Japanese destroyers when they enter sea zone 40. So are the Japanese destroyers still able to continue their movement? Even if they can’t pretend to raid, escort in a sea route or blockade a naval base to within the range of these boats.
No, you don’t have to pretend to raid, escort or perform a naval blockade. You make your announcement sea zone by sea zone, as you enter each new sea zone. You enter sea zone 39, but there are no enemy units present and you want to keep moving. Since there are no enemy units present, you don’t need to announce anything because there is nothing the defending player can do to stop you. You then move into sea zone 40 where there are enemy units present. Now, there IS something the defending player can do to interfere with your movement, so your intention becomes important. The attacking player says, “I intend to move to sea zone 41. Do you want to declare war, defending player?” If no DoW by the defending player, then you move into sea zone 41. Again, there are no enemy units in sea zone 41 and there is nothing that can be done to stop you from entering sea zone 42, so it’s not necessary to announce your intention. You enter sea zone 42. Because you are the attacking player, you announce your intention first upon entering sea zone 42, saying, “I declare war on you and attack this destroyer.”
“6.2 also states that a player may resolve the actions during a phase in any order ».
This rule is useful when there is a city that could be encircled before attacking it. The attacking player choose to resolve the combat that allows a city to be encircled first, then the attacking player resolves the combat against the city that is now encircled (because there isn’t airbase or naval base undamaged there), so the malus of encirclement applies to the defender in the city, right?
Correct and an important tactic!