ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC

@seancb said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

@AndrewAAGamer
AA units can take control of a neutral

No they cannot. I realize TripleA lets you do it so it is an easy mistake to make but if you check the notes section it details all the official rules that the game engine is incapable of handling. This is one of them.

The big five I normally see people do that are illegal moves are:

• Not recovering a plane via a carrier and letting it splash
• Fly over and past a Neutral that has not been previously attacked
• Blitzing through or moving past a Neutral the same Turn it was controlled
• Taking a Neutral with an AA gun
• Using a transport both in the Non-combat Phase and again in the Combat Phase.

@AndrewAAGamer
It says nothing about an AA gun being unable to activate a neutral in the rule book I looked everywhere

@seancb said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

@AndrewAAGamer
It says nothing about an AA gun being unable to activate a neutral in the rule book I looked everywhere

@seancb You are correct. It is not in the Rulebook. It is in the FAQ. It is also listed on this website here:
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/20494/mongolia-and-neutrals-rules-summarized-here

@AndrewAAGamer
That is someone’s “made up” FAQ. We are like attorneys in our group. If its not in the rule book, it is either not permitted or permitted depending on the circumstance!!!

Wow - tough. Here it is from the FAQ

Axis & Allies Europe 1940 FAQ - September 3, 2014

Q. Can I activate a friendly neutral territory by moving an antiaircraft gun into it?
A. No. You must move a land unit with an attack value into the territory.

@seancb said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

@AndrewAAGamer
That is someone’s “made up” FAQ. We are like attorneys in our group. If its not in the rule book, it is either not permitted or permitted depending on the circumstance!!!

That’s a really odd stance to take. Andrew’s link is to Gamerman’s thread, who has the tag “Official Answers”. That means ->“This group of individuals provide answers to the game that should be considered the official out of the box rules answers.”

I don’t know the exact relationship of this site’s top dogs but I know they have frequently corresponded with Larry Harris over the years.

It is not just “someone’s” made-up FAQ. The answers and clarifications can be considered an addendum to the G40 2E rule books.

It’s fine if you want to play lawyers and pause the game with your group to scour the rule book to find answers that may or may not be there but the users of these forums recognize the legitimacy of official answers.
It’s a rather large rule book; you really think Larry would either be perfect or not allow clarifications on what should have been added?

since every one wants to argue about it I’ll channel my inner Curtmungus and continue to make everyone angry and make a sad attempt at trolling the so called “rule freaks”.
We’ll just say this one time for the wimps in their basement.
Our reasoning is similar to lending that friendly power the ability to defend itself if attacked. Therefore they are joining the fight due you giving them arms which they didn’t have. You guys can play your way and we’ll play ours. Carry on.

one more thing
we started playing with that ability when the game came out. Not when some “FAQ” came out. To be honest, it’s not really a “frequently asked” question to us.

@seancb Whatever. Thanks for wasting my time when I was trying to help you.

For those that really care, like @Burgh-Gamer-67, and who want to play the game by the official rules an AA gun does not take control of a neutral. Nuff said…

Does it matter what you do? No, and your are right no one cares what you and your group does. But this thread was a legitimate question of official rules. Please do not bring your fanciful notions, which is odd since you said your group lawyers every rule in the book, to someone else’s thread who asked a legitimate question. You want imagination; go the House Rules section and make your proclamations there.

@AndrewAAGamer said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

ANZAC or UK may land planes on any Dutch territory. However that does not take control of the territory for the Power that landed planes there. A land unit, not AA, is required to take control of a Dutch territory.

@ShadowHAwk said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

Well actually the rules dont specify that you can land air units there. These are the only 4 neutral pro-allied islands on the map so the wording is weird.

But they are technically not owned by anzac or UK. So following the general rules you can only land planes on land that was owned at the beginning of your turn. There is no provision that contradicts this rule, the rules posted only state that they are pro-uk, anzac and that the anzac can take control of them without declaring war.

So we got 1 rule explicitly stating that you can only land air on terretories that you owned at the start of your turn ( or friendly AC’s ). Yet people thing this rule isnt valid in this case because?

HA haha yes this is true. I always wondered why you could land planes on a pro neutral but not activated or controlled by you. It should be one way or the other and the other gets it.
I have to agree with a AA gun can take control on a Pro-Neutral. There’s a threat of you being attacked by Japan and as an allie I will give you ground gun support and you compensate me ( receive territory value Icps ) by paying for it and for added protection.
Yes and no planes can land there until you control it. “But of Course”

Maybe landing planes is like you see in other wars and countries that are not at war but you are and they let you use there airbases for your planes based on a pro allie.

@ShadowHAwk said in ANZAC planes landing in Dutch territories (Java/Sumatra) on same turn they were taken by ANZAC:

Well actually the rules dont specify that you can land air units there. These are the only 4 neutral pro-allied islands on the map so the wording is weird.

The rules address this. Pg 9 ->
These two powers also have an arrangement with the Dutch government in exile (Holland having been captured by Germany) and have taken guardianship of the Dutch territories in the Pacific. As a result, they are free to move units into these territories as a noncombat movement at any time, as long as they have not yet been captured by Japan. They may actually take control of them (gaining their IPC income) by moving land units into them.

“units” means any units, including air units. “land units” means any land unit, later clarified to mean any land unit excluding AAA.
The Netherlands is not neutral. Calling the DEI pro-Allied neutrals is incorrect and can confuse other players.

Wouldn’t you agree that UK1 I can land fighters onto French Normandy? It’s not magically neutral after Paris falls.

Netherlands

• capital is occupied

• cannot be liberated(is not a Power)

• is Allied, not neutral

• special relationship with ANZAC UK that allows those two Powers to take ownership of territory in NCM that hasn’t been conquered by Axis

France

• Capital occupied(for most of game)

• can be liberated(is a Power)

• is Allied, not neutral

• Allied units can not take ownership of French territory in NCM that france has retained from Axis; it stays blue

DEI is not neutral. If it was a pro-allies neutral it would look like Eastern Persia. There’s special rules for Mongolia but it is neutral, not Allied.

DEI has its own roundel because Netherlands is Allied. If they wanted it to be a neutral, they would have the vertical/diagonal lines running thru the DEI and say “-neutral”.
Is French Indo-China a pro-Allies “neutral”? By your logic, it must be. But it just isn’t.
Yes, Japan is only at war with China. Inevitably, Japan will be at war with US UK ANZAC. So while neutrality exists, the two factions also exist from the beginning and inevitably clash.

All I’m saying is that it is fine if you want to disagree with the rules and play how you want. I’m just asking that you and others don’t obstinately spread misinformation when faced with the actual rules.

Pg 9

“The only neutral territories in the game are those that make up Mongolia.”

Please start including sources for your claims otherwise it comes off as bad faith arguments.

Of course the DEI territories are not neutral. The status of the Dutch territories is clearly defined in the Pacific rulebook, page 9:

“Dutch Territories
The Dutch territories begin the game uncontrolled by
any power. However, they are considered friendly to the
Allied powers. Holland has been captured by Germany, so
Dutch territories are treated in the same way as any Allied
territories whose capital is held by an enemy power (see
“Liberating a Territory,” page 20), with the exception of the
guardianship of United Kingdom and ANZAC (see “United
Kingdom and ANZAC”, above).”

The fact that a territory currently is uncontrolled does not make it neutral.