Bombing by Average

Here is 10 of n for discussion of my Classic House Rules

Here are my optional rules for enhanced Strategic Bombing Raids in the Milton Bradley edition of A&A. To use these rules, conduct a Strategic Bombing the same as standard rules, excepting that the player making the Strategic Bombing roll adds a 2 to the roll to determine the damage caused to the defending player’s bankroll. (i.e. Strategic Bombing does economic damage of 3-8 IPC per successful attempt.)

The original idea for the enhanced Strategic Bombing attacks dates to from before A&A Revised produced its own version of rework of Strategic Bombing. Again, the intent with these rules is not to rewrite the Milton Bradley edition of the rule book into the Avalon Hill edition of the rule book but to discuss a modern version of my rules from 2003.

-Midnight_Reaper

This mechanics can also be applied to ABs as Carolina is suggesting:

Air and Naval base damage
@Carolina:

Great topic - hi-lights how A&A is a little too basic.  ie. not all hits should be equal - really, when would AAA blow every plane out of the sky?

I would propose to change the AAA rule for bases and industry that AAA does not kill but affects the accuracy of the attacker.  Defending installation rules a 1d6 and this is subtracted from the attacker’s roll.  
1d6-1 for fighters and tacB
1d6-2 for bombers
Roll an AAA dice for each attacking aircraft.

As the Baron points out, modeling air superiority contests in a relatively simple wargame like A&A is quite a challenge! I think there are actually several different phenomena that go by the name of ‘air superiority’ that a good house rule would pay attention to. One is that if your air force is totally unopposed, your ground units will have advantages in terms of recon, surprise, flexibility, etc. because your planes can survey the lay of the land and strike quickly at the point of maximum impact. Another is that airplanes tend to kill each other first, before killing ground units. A third factor is that when fighters intercept bombers, the bombers tend to be less effective – it’s not just that the bombers get killed accomplishing their missions; it’s also that the bombers fly at higher altitudes, fly at faster speeds, and fly on more evasive flight paths to try to minimize their risk of getting shot down. Even when the bombers survive, they do less damage if they’re being harassed by fighters.

Here’s my take on a set of rules that could capture all of those dynamics:

After all attacks are declared, the defender may scramble up to 3 fighters from anywhere on the board, plus up to 2 more fighters from each airbase. Scrambled fighters can move to an adjacent territory or sea zone to participate in a battle there, and then (if they survive) automatically return from whence they came. The same fighter cannot participate in more than one battle per turn.

Attacking and defending fighters roll their dice separately from other units. When fighters score a hit, that hit must be assigned to a plane if possible. The victim can choose which plane is killed. Even though fighter casualties are assigned separately, they are resolved at the same instant as other casualties. For example, suppose a German force of 4 inf, 1 tnk, 1 fighter, and 2 bombers attacks a French garrison of 3 inf, 1 art, 2 fighters. The Germans score a hit with their fighter, and 3 hits with their remaining forces. The French score one hit with their fighter, and 2 hits with their remaining forces. The Germans would have to lose 1 plane and 2 units of their choice – they would probably choose to lose 2 inf, 1 ftr, leaving them with 2 inf, 1 tnk, and 2 bombers. The French would have to lose 1 plane and 3 units of their choice – they would probably choose to lose 3 inf, 1 ftr, leaving them with 1 art, 1 ftr.

If at any point you have at least one plane in a territory, and your opponent has no planes or AAA guns left alive in that territory, then your infantry and mech. infantry in that territory get +1 to their dice rolls. This is cumulative with the artillery bonus. For example, if you have 2 inf, 1 mech. inf, 3 art, and 2 bombers attacking in a territory, and your opponent is defending with only 3 inf, 1 tnk, then your infantry would score hits on rolls of “3” or less – 1 for their basic offense, +1 for the artillery, +1 for the air superiority. Defending infantry can also benefit from air superiority if the defender has air superiority. For example, if your force of 4 inf, 1 fighter, 1 bomber is being attacked by 3 inf, 3 tnk, then your infantry will hit on rolls of “3” or less – 2 for their basic defense, +1 for the air superiority.

Before each combat starts, match each fighter in the combat with one enemy bomber. At the end of the first round of combat, remove that bomber from combat. It no longer rolls dice to try to score hits, and it can no longer be taken as a casualty. This represents bomber pilots’ efforts to avoid interceptors by flying high, flying fast, and then going home. The bomber can be returned to a friendly territory as normal during the non-combat move. If, in any given territory, you have more bombers than your enemy has fighters, your ‘excess’ bombers participate in the entire combat as normal.

To help adjust for the increased mobility of fighters and for their ability to preferentially target (expensive) planes, the combat value of a fighter is reduced to a “2” on offense and a “3” on defense.

1942.2 SBR Black Elk hypothesis

Strategic Bomber
Attack 0
Damage 1D6, 1D6+2
Cost 5

Fighter
Attack 1
Defense 2
Cost 10

Break even point StB A0 C5, 1D6+2 damage vs Fg A1 D2:  21 StBs vs 30 Fgs: 0.700 StB/Fg
1StB D6+2 vs 1Fg D2: + 3.056 - 2.222= + 0.834 IPC damage/SBR12= +10.008
1StB D6+2 vs 2Fgs D2: +2.037 - 3.148 = -1.111 IPC damage/SBR9= -9.999 (Diff.: +0.009)
21 StB vs 30 Fgs:   0.700 StB/Fg
No FIT (Fighter Interception Threshold), always beneficial to Intercept.

Break even point StB A0 C5, 1D6 damage vs Fg A1 D2: 17 StBs vs 15 Fgs: 1.133 StBs/Fg
1 StB D6  vs 1Fg D2: + 1.944 - 2.222 = -0.278 IPC damage/SBR13 = -3.614
2 StBs D6 vs 1Fg D2: +4.861 - 3.056= +1.805 IPCs damage/SBR2= +3.610 (Diff.: -0.004)
17 StBs vs 15 Fgs: 1.133 StBs/Fgs
No FIT (Fighter Interception Threshold), always beneficial to Intercept.

Down below here is a different values doing SBR for 1942.2 and G40

Strategic Bomber in air-to-air combat SBR:
Attack 0
Bombard IC damage: D6 or 1D6+2

Fighter in air-to-air combat SBR:
Attack 1
Defend 2

IC’s AAA: @1 against each Strategic Bomber

1942.2 SBR HRules with StB A0 and Fg A1 D1 : damage 1D6 or 1D6+2

1 Strategic Bomber doing SBR against no interceptor

AAA roll = odds casualties

5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = +4.583 IPCs *3.5= +2.917
1/6 StB killed *5 IPCs = -0.833 IPCs

D6: +2.917-0.833= +2.084 IPCs
D6+2: + 4.583 - 0.833 = +3.750 IPCs damage/SBR

1 Strategic Bomber Att 0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor Def 2

Interceptor Fg roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

2/66/6 = 12/36 1 StB killed by Fg
4/61/6 = 4/36 1 StB killed by AAA
4/6*5/6 = 20/36 No casualty at all.

Results:
Bombard on IC 20/36* ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 3.056 IPCs *3.5=+1.944
StB killed 16/36 *-5 IPCs = - 2.222 IPCs
1D6 vs 1D2: + 1.944 - 2.222 = -0.278
1D6+2 vs 1D2: + 3.056 - 2.222= + 0.834 IPC damage/SBR

D6 vs Fg D1: + 2.431 - 1.528 = +0.903
D6+2 vs Fg D1: + 3.819 - 1.528= + 2.291 IPC damage/SBR

1 Strategic Bomber Att 0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors Def 2

Interceptors Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

20/366/6 = 120/216 1 StB killed by Fg
16/361/6 = 16/216 1 StB killed by AAA
16/36*5/6 = 80/216 No casualty at all.

Results:
Bombard on IC 80/216* ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = +2.037 IPCs *3.5= +1.296
StB killed 136/216 *- 5 IPCs = -3.148 IPCs
D6 vs D2: +1.296 - 3.148 =-1.852 IPCs
D6+2 vs D2: +2.037 - 3.148 = -1.111 IPC damage/SBR

D6 vs Fg D1: + 2.025 - 2.106 = -0.081 IPCs
D6+2 vs Fg D1 : + 3.183 - 2.106 = +1.077 IPC damage/SBR

1 Fighter Att 1 and 1 Strategic Bomber Att 0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors Def 2

Fighter roll/interceptors Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

1/64/366/6 = 24/1296 1 Fg and 1 StB killed by Fgs vs 1 Fg
1/616/361/6= 16/1296 1 Fg killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg
1/616/365/6= 80/1296 1 Fg killed by Fg vs 1 Fg
1/616/361/6 = 16/1296 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg
1/616/365/6 = 80/1296 No casualty vs 1 Fg

5/64/366/6 = 120/1296 1 Fg and 1 StB killed by Fg vs no casualty
5/616/361/6 = 80/1296 1 Fg killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty
5/616/365/6= 400/1296 1 Fg killed by Fg vs no casualty
5/616/361/6 = 80/1296 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty
5/616/365/6 = 400/1296 no casualty at all

Results:
Bombard on IC: 960/1296 * ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 4.074 IPCs 3.5= +2.593
Killing 1 Fg: 216/1296 +10 IPCs = + 1.667 IPCs
Fg killed: 480/1296-10 IPCs = - 3.704 IPCs
StB killed: 96/1296 -5 IPCs = - 0.370 IPCs
StB & Fg killed: 240/1296* -15 IPCs = - 2.778 IPCs

D6 vs 2Fgs D2: +4.260 - 6.852 = -2.592 IPCs
D6+2 vs 2Fgs D2: + 5.741 - 6.852 = -1.111 IPCs damage/SBR

D6 vs D1: +4.503 - 1.690 = +2.813 IPCs
D6+2 vs D1: + 6.123 - 1.690 = + 4.433 IPCs damage/SBR

1 Fighter Att 1 and 1 Strategic Bomber Att 0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor Def 2
Fighter escort taking the casualty.
Fighter roll/interceptor Fg roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

1/62/61/6= 2/216 1 Fg killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg
1/62/65/6= 10/216 1 Fg killed by Fg vs 1 Fg
1/64/61/6 = 4/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg
1/64/65/6 = 20/216 No casualty vs 1 Fg

5/62/61/6 = 10/216 1 Fg killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty
5/62/65/6 = 50/216 1 Fg killed by Fg vs no casualty
5/64/61/6 = 20/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty
5/64/65/6 = 100/216 no casualty at all

Results:
Bombard on IC: 180/216 * ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 4.583 IPCs 3.5= +2.917
Killing 1 Fg: 36/216 +10 IPCs = + 1.667 IPCs
Fg killed:60/216-10 IPCs = -2.778 IPCs
StB killed: 24/216 -5 IPCs = - 0.555 IPCs
StB & Fg killed: 12/216* -15 IPCs = -0.833 IPC

1Fg A1 1StB D6 vs 1 Fg D2: +4.583 - 4.166 = +0.418 IPCs
1Fg A1 1StB D6+2 vs 1 Fg D2: + 6.250 - 4.166 = + 2.084 IPCs damage/SBR

1Fg A1 1StB D6: +2.500 - 1.111 = +1.389 IPCs
1Fg A1 1StB D6+2: + 6.250 - 1.111 = + 5.139 IPCs damage/SBR

2 Strategic Bombers Att 0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors Def 2

Interceptor Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

4/3636/36= 144/1296 2 StBs killed by Fgs
16/366/36 = 96/1296 1 StB killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA
16/36*30/36= 480/1296 1 StB killed by Fg

16/361/36 = 16/1296 2 StBs killed by AAA
16/3610/36 = 160/1296 1 StB killed by AAA
16/36*25/36 = 400/1296 No casualty at all.

Results:
2x Bombard on IC 400/1296* ((2+4)+(12+4) IPCs)/2= +11 IPCs) = +3.395 IPCs 7=+2.160
1x Bombard on IC 640/1296 ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 2.716 IPCs 3.5=+1.728
2 StBs killed 256/1296 -10 IPCs = -1.975 IPCs
1 StB killed 640/1296* -5 IPCs = -2.469 IPCs
D6 vs 2 Fgs D2: +3.888 - 4.444 =-0.556 IPCs
D6+2 vs 2Fgs D2: +6.111 - 4.444 = +1.667 IPCs damage/SBR

D6 vs 2 Fgs D1: +4.863 - 3.056 = +1.807 IPCs
D6+2 vs 2Fgs D1: + 7.639 - 3.056 = + 4.583 IPCs damage/SBR

2 Strategic Bombers Att 0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor Def 2

Interceptor Fg roll/ AAA roll = odds casualties

2/66/36 = 12/216 1 StB killed by Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA
2/630/36= 60/216 1 StB killed by Fg
4/61/36 = 4/216 2 StBs killed by AAA
4/610/36 = 40/216 1 StB killed by AAA
4/6*25/36 = 100/216 No casualty at all.

Results:
2x Bombard on IC 100/216* ((2+4)+(12+4) IPCs)/2= +11 IPCs) = +5.093 IPCs 7=+3.241
1x Bombard on IC 100/216 ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = + 2.546 IPCs 3.5=+1.620
2 StBs killed 16/216 -10 IPCs = -0.741 IPC
1 StB killed 100/216* -5 IPCs = -2.315 IPCs

2 StBs D6 vs 1 Fg D2: +4.861 - 3.056= +1.805 IPCs
2 StBs D6+2 vs 1 Fg D2: +7.639 - 3.056 = +4.583 IPCs damage/SBR

2 StBs D6 vs 1 Fg D1: +5.347 - 2.361= +2.986 IPCs
2 StBs D6+2 vs 1 Fg D1: +8.403 - 2.361 = +6.042 IPCs damage/SBR

@Baron:

Summary:
StB A0 C12 vs Fg A1 C10
1 Strategic Bomber doing SBR against no interceptor
D6+2: + 4.583 - 2 = +2.583 IPCs damage/SBR run
D6: +2.917-2= 0.917 IPCs

1 Strategic Bomber A0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor D1
D6+2: + 3.819 - 3.667 = + 0.152 IPC damage/SBR run
D6: + 2.431 - 3.667 = -1.236

1 Strategic Bomber A0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors D1
D6+2: + 3.183 - 5.056 = - 1.873 IPCs damage/SBR run
D6: + 2.025 - 5.056 = -3.031 IPCs

1 Fighter A1 and 1 Strategic Bomber A0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors D1
D6+2: + 6.123 - 5.334 = + 0.789 IPC damage/SBR run
D6: +4.503 - 5.334 = -0.831 IPCs

2 Strategic Bombers A0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors D1
D6+2: + 7.639 - 7.334 = + 0.305 IPC damage/SBR run
D6: +4.863 - 7.334= -2.471 IPCs

1 Fighter A1 and 1 Strategic Bomber A0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor D1
D6+2: + 6.250 - 3.667 = + 2.583 IPCs damage/SBR run
D6: +2.500 - 3.667 = -1.167 IPCs

2 Strategic Bombers A0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor D1
D6+2: + 8.403 - 5.666 = + 2.737 IPCs damage/SBR
D6: + 5.347 -5.666= -0.319 IPCs

Comparison of this HR with Triple A SBR for 1942.2

1942.2 SBR HRules with StB A0 and Fg A1 D1 : damage 1D6+2   Triple A SBR for 1942.2: damage 1D6

1 Strategic Bomber doing SBR against no interceptor             1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
Sum: + 4.583 - 2 = +2.583 IPCs damage/SBR run                Sum: +2.917 - 2 = +0.917 IPC damage/SBR run

1 Strategic Bomber A0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor D1     1 StB A1 against 1 Fg D1
Sum: + 3.819 - 3.667 = + 0.152 IPC. damage/SBR run        Sum: +3.69 - 3.667 = + 0.023 IPC damage/SBR run

1 Strategic Bomber A0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors D1       1 StB A1 doing SBR against 2 intercepting Fgs D1
Sum: + 3.183 - 5.056 = - 1.873 IPC. damage/SBR run              Sum: + 2.025 - 5.056 = - 3.031 IPCs damage/SBR run

1 Fighter A1 and 1 Strategic Bomber A0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors D1       1 StB & 1 Fg A1 doing SBR against 2 intercepting Fgs D1
Sum: + 6.123 - 5.334 = + 0.789 IPC damage/SBR run              Sum: +6.155 - 5.33 = + 0.825 IPC damage/SBR run

2 Strategic Bombers A0 doing SBR against 2 interceptors D1         2 StBs A1 doing SBR against 2 intercepting Fgs D1
Sum: + 7.639 - 7.334 = + 0.305 IPCs damage/SBR run              Sum: +8.195 - 7.334 = + 0.861 IPC damage/SBR run

1 Fighter A1 and 1 Strategic Bomber A0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor D1       1 StB & 1 Fg A1 doing SBR against 1 intercepting Fg D1
Sum: + 6.250 - 3.667 = + 2.583 IPC damage/SBR run         Sum: + 5.973 - 3.667 = + 2.306 IPCs damage/SBR run

2 Strategic Bombers A0 doing SBR against 1 interceptor D1         2 StBs A1 doing SBR against 1 intercepting Fg D1
Sum: + 8.403 - 5.666 = + 2.737 IPCs damage/SBR run         Sum: +8.403 - 5.666 = + 2.737 IPCs damage/StB

@toblerone77:

What is so hard to understand?

Three STBs make a night raid. The defender rolls three dice and scores 3 hits by a miracle.
So 1.5 hits rounded up, it’s two hits, rounded down it’s one hit. The remaining attackers roll for damage and the total is halved to the nearest IPC worth of damage up or down.
If some one were to use the HR their group could decide.

Want simpler rolls for AA guns during a night raid? Easy use D12 dice and have them roll at 1. That equates .5 pips on a D6 die. Easy.

You got it man!!!  :-o  I completely forgot about this possibility of using D12.

I believe you already play with D12, so it won’t be difficult to introduce it in your game.

Day and night AAA will be distinct this way:
Day AAA, use 1 on D6 or “1” or “2” on D12.
For an average casualty of 2/12 * -12 IPCs = - 2 IPCs/StB run.

Night AAA, use “1” on D12.
For an average casualty of 1/12 * -12 IPCs = - 1 IPC/StB run.

One casualty roll is always better. And you get your half casualty average for Night B.

The last point remaining is on damage roll of 1 StB.
Day time SBR:
D6+2 (avg 5.5) * 5/6 = 27.5 IPCs/6 =      4.583 IPCs/StB - 2 IPCs = 2.583 IPCs/run 100%
D6 (avg 3.5) * 5/6 = 17.5 IPCs/6 =          2.917 IPCs/StB - 2 IPCs = 0.917 IPCs/run 35.5%

Night time SBR:
D6 (avg 3.5) * 11/12 = 38.5 IPCs/12 =    3.208 IPCs/ StB  - 1 IPC = 2.208 IPCs/ run  85%
D3+1 (avg 3) * 11/12 = 33 IPCs/12 =      2.750 IPCs/ StB   - 1 IPC = 1.75 IPCs/ run  68%
D6-1 (avg 2.5) * 11/12 = 27.5 IPCs/12 = 2.292 IPCs/ StB  - 1 IPC = 1.292 IPCs/ run 50%
D3 (avg 2) * 11/12 = 22 IPCs/12 =          1.833 IPCs/ StB  - 1 IPC = 0.833 IPCs/ run  32%

Last Tob77 version 4 out 6 doing 2 IPCs damage:
4/6 * 2 IPCs * 5/6 = 40 IPCs/36 =           1.111 IPCs/StB - 2 IPCs = -0.889 IPCs/run - 34%

AA gun hits halved rounded up version for 2 StBs:
D3+1(avg 3)*11/36=33 IPCs/36=      +0.917 IPCs/ 2StB
D3+1(avg 3)225/36=150 IPCs/36= +4.167 IPCs/ 2StB - 3.667= 1.417/2= 0.709 IPCs/ 1 StB run 27%
                                                                            or -1.834 IPCs/ 1 StB

AA gun hits halved rounded down version for 2 StBs:
D3+1(avg 3)*1/36=3 IPCs/36 =         +0.083 IPCs/2StBs
D3+1(avg 3)235/36= 210 IPCs/36= +5.833 IPCs/2StBs -0.333= 5.583/2= 2.792 IPCs/1 StB run 108%
                                                                             or -0.167 IPCs/ 1 StB

1 StB against AAA repulse @2:
D3+1 (avg 3) * 4/6 = 12 IPCs/6 =      2 IPCs/ StB   - 0 IPC = 2.00 IPCs/ run  77%

Rolling damage first 1 to 4 IPCs, 5 or 6 is a miss and get under AA fire @1:
1+2+3+4+0+0=10/6 IPCs =         + 1.67 IPCs - [(12 IPCs*2/36)= 4/6] .67 = 1 IPC/ run 39%

Night time bombing played as Convoy disruption on 1-3 damage (4-6= 0), no AA fired:
1+2+3+0+0+0=6/6=                     +1 IPC             - 0 IPC = 1 IPC damage/ run 39%

i like this idea. this idea could work well with using it as a tech such as stategic targeting. or added to heavy bomber tech. this will also could come in handy if HBG starts making light, meduim and heavy bombers

I have changed my Strategic Bombing rule.

A bomber bombing a factory for the first time recieves 1xd6 to damage enemy industrial complexes however, on a second raid when the same nation attacks the same enemy factory, all surviving bombers use 2xd6 and may choose the highest result rolled to inflict damage. During a third raid from the same nation against the same enemy factory, surviving bombers roll 3xd6 each and may choose the highest result rolled to inflict damage. Bombers receive 4xd6 each for the forth raid and 5xd6 each for the fifth (5 dice is the maximum each bomber may roll).

Each bomber may only apply 1 dice result to damage factories.
Each surviving bombers dice must be rolled separate from other surviving bombers dice.

@Rakeman:

@Cmdr:

That is significantly better. (Allies can capture Kwangtung or Philippines easier.)

Though, I still think having it auto liberate after Russia’s turn is the best idea.  That way Japan would have to maintain pressure on W. USA too keep the VC.

Perhaps if USA loses money due to bombing, the VC is captured, but liberated automatically on Russia’s turn?  It would require pressure maintained, but not so much pressure that Japan needs to dedicate all of its money to bombing.

I think it would be okay as long as Japan has to successfully bomb W. USA each successive turn to maintain command over the Victory City there.

That way Japan can still screw up by sending one bomber and having it shot down, or America could get lucky and get 3 hits with it’s AA Gun against 3 bombers.