Special SBR phase prior to regular Combat move

Re: G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)

Since Strategic bombers at 5 IPCs with no combat values outside SBR being an interesting part of these rule suggestions, I wonder how it can be possible to do a complete SBR phase but isolated from Combat move and regular combat, allowing all active Power’s Fighters to act as escort for Strategic bombers and TcBs. Such designated Fighters would still be allowed to take part of regular combat move.

Yes, it is true that escorting Fighters kind of having a double dipping.
However, Fighters acting as escort would have to land into their original territories or aircraft carriers.

Do you see some issues about this rule to make incentive for dogfight in SBR?

First impact, some bases could be inoperative due to a few bombing raids prior to Combat Move.
Such cases may prevent a few scramble before being able to repair Air Base.

Hi SS,

@SS-GEN said in Special SBR phase prior to regular Combat move:

Hows this. All SBR attacks are done before normal combat moves. So you send attacking bombers with escorts and defender can scramble as many figs as he chooses to intercept with and conduct 1 round of dog fight. Then surviving figs from both sides have to land back to where they came from. Now AA fires on bombers and any surviving bombers SBR. Then land Bombers.
Now conduct your normal combat moves and do your normal combat with all planes ( Can’t use bombers from SBR raids ? ) from both sides that were involved in prior SBR combat.
DF values Fig AD 1d6@1 & Tacs/Stg B. AD 1d12@1.

I have somebody testing these values in d6 game for ship AA and plane vs plane DF
with no dog fighting going on in the first round of combat only unless its an SBR raid.

That is exactly the way I would proceed in my game. In addition, since I play on boardgame, I use a similar ratio of dogfight values. Fighters are doubled compared to StB or TcB. I used Fighter A2 D2 vs A1 for bombers.
So, it can work as well with 2 out 12 for Fighters vs 1 out of 12 for bombers.

The difference compared to your game is about Strategic bombers cost 5 IPCs with no regular combat value.
So, they have no use in regular combat, it is a specialized unit for SBR.

The balance issue is about the price of Fighter because at 10 IPCs it makes 2 StBs A1 pretty killing machine against a single Fighter if keeping same IPC basis.

For StB, it is a ratio of 4 (2 pips * 2 hits) vs 2 pips*hits (2 pips * 1 hit), for Fighter.

Fighters at 7 IPCs work better from a balance POV.
7 StBs A1 (49 pips*hits: 7 pips * 7 hits) vs 5 Fgs D2 (50 pips*hits: 10 pips * 5 hits)
And makes a good fight for the cost.
Since we all assume that interceptors should be better at shooting bombers than reverse.

@barnee said in Special SBR phase prior to regular Combat move:

@baron-Münchhausen

Hi baron

Idk about 2 sorties for 1 mission. Doesn’t seem right to me. I guess in a way it already does that. You can defend against SBR against as many attacks as you face from other players and then do your offense on your turn.

Have you tried the 5 dollar Bomber much ? I’ve found it pretty fun. Not perfect but better than oob imo.
They have no dog fight ability, which a 1 in 12 hit would be worth trying for them imo. Would give a slight chance of a B-17 shooting down a fighter, but can’t do it with triplea unfortunately.

What I have found is more SBR’s, but you need to escort, otherwise defending fighters get a free shot at the Bombers. Makes one keep more fighters for defense too. Especially W Germany and Germany when in range. Need more Escorts for Moscow attacks and Germany really needs to keep the Luftwaffe’ s Fighters strong.

Keeps Germany from going as big with ground if you want to SBR, which is pretty key I would think.

Also, if one uses the alternate sub/DD rules in the House Rules Mod, and you get even more divergent behavior.

Hi Barnee,
I mostly played around 1942.2 in your modified version and it was pretty interesting to use StBs with no attack factor compared to Fg interception @1.

My board game plays with Fighter always shooting at planes first, so it was quite a waste of useful rolls when dedicating Fgs to SBR only. I tought making a whole separate phase might solve this part.

But, the other intersting tactical aspect is the immediate reward from bombing airbases and negating scramble prior to a sea combat in regular combat.

@SS-GEN said in Special SBR phase prior to regular Combat move:

We just played with figs C8 stg b C8

In that regard, it means that Fighter is twice better at dogfight than StBomber.
It is probably interesting to commit aircraft into various combat because of lower cost.
My own cost is Fighter at 7 IPCs and TcBs at 8 IPCs.

It is a small margin but your Fighter value is less direct against aircraft than mine. So, it means less aircraft attrition somehow. So, all in all, I feel both Fighter configuration are balance.