General 6 Stars 1941 WW2 Game

@Hambone said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

I didn’t know Dudley would give up vital info? Have to remember that!

Ya the Dudley Do Wrong has been known to be a double spy !!! More treats more info !!!

@barnee said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@AAGamer said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@barnee Barnee Sir Dudley doesnt care what he gets to eat… He will spy for you for any food… He prefers full hamburgers to be honest!!

heh heh looks as if he’d power down a half pounder then look up going is there more : )

So true !!!

@Valladares said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@barnee Nice photos. I see that you can bomb the oil fields, ¿how is that mechanic working?

The oil mechanic is working great.
You receive 1 Icp for each oil derrick &
2 Icps for each refinery you own.

Only 6 oil derricks in game so far. 4 in Middle East for a axis victory bonus point if they control all 4.
1 in Java and Columbia for now.

You can SBR oil derricks up to 3 damage. You lose the 1 Icp income if damaged.
You can SBR Refinery’s up to 6 damage and lose the 2 icp income. If you don’t repair all damage your
Refinery at start of turn you roll to see what pieces get a -1 movement from a chart.
You can also convoy raid ( 3 damaged also lose income ) Refinery’s, Resources and convoy boxes.
This represents all types of supply ships being attacked.

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Here are the values for pieces updated for next game. These numbers work pretty good now. The question is do we give a destroyer an aa shot at planes ? Of course most say no. But all ships had aa guns. Some better and some ships had more of them. Some were shot down but also when these guns were fired at planes it would divert some planes away from fear of being hit. But if you really look at the d6 games and most don’t agree with ships getting aa, is technically BB CR and DD are getting plane hits in all games but at attackers and defenders choice. So in other words planes are not being taken as casualties too with attacker and defenders choice until last couple rounds of combat. So look at what I’m doing in away is yes you get a low aa ship shot but it’s also forcing the defender to pick a plane casualty in the first round in combat and beyond instead of the last round or so of combat. So now we don’t have the dog fight 1 round before all combat neither.
Plus planes are attacking planes the same time.
So here are the values with the destroyer.
BB C15 AD@3 plane & AD@8 ship. Dam AD@2 plane & AD@6 ship
CR C9 M3 AD@3 plane & AD@7 ship.
DD C6 AD@1 plane & AD@3 ship.
Fig C10 M5 AD@2 plane & AD@5 gr/ship.
Tac C10 M5 AD@1 plane & AD@5. 3 or less pick.
N fig C10 M4 AD@2 plane & AD@4 gr/ship.
N Dive C10 M4 AD@1 plane & AD@5. 3 or less pick.
Stg. B C10 A4@3 1 round only. D@2. Can’t hit naval ships.
AC C14 D@3 plane only. Dam. D@2 plane only.
EC C8 D@2 plane only.

Hi SS,
I wonder what impact do you see in your game with so many units being even off-defense.

I usually based my roster on the disparity between attack and defense such as OOB G40, (D6) Subs A2 vs D1, Carrier A0 vs D2, Fg A3 vs D4.
Usually, defense is higher for most unit because attacker always get the initiative to choose where there is a fight.

Did you try before something like:
Carrier C14 A0 D4 able to hold 3 aircraft
Naval Fg C8 A4 D5,

The reason for the same on A & D is for confusion. With testing the above numbers in 2 games and going back to another change of values based on testing need to stick with one of them.
The list you posted worked great but figs to strong against ships and the ships AA plane kill only was to weak. So I went back to normal casualty hits with a bonus AA ship and DF kill per round for each piece. We even tested the Fig going to C8 AD@4 & AD@2 plane only but was to weak on ground attacks against Inf. The fighter being the hardest piece to get some good balance is a bit either to strong or to weak. This is what we went with last 2 games.
BB C15 AD@8 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus AA plane kill too. This means a double hit.
CR C9 AD@7 M3 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus AA plane kill too.
DD C6 AD@3 + if roll is a 1 get a bonus AA plane kill too.
AC C14 D@3 plane only
EC C8 D@2 plane only
TR C7 D@1 plane only
SS C7 A5 D2 FS ( may got to A4 and pick target )
Fig C8 AD@5 ground AD@4 ships + if roll is a 2 or less get a DF plane kill too.
N Fig C8 AD@4 + if roll is a 2 or less get a DF plane kill too.
Tac & Dive C10 AD@5 + roll a 1 get a DF plane kill too. If roll is a 3 or less can pick target.
Stg, B C8 A3@3 + if roll is a 1 get a DF plane kill too. D2 SBR 1 d6 + 2.
Interceptors and escorts : Figs, N. figs AD@3 and all bombers AD@1.

The Carrier holding 3 planes is a Super Carriers Tech in game. May still just add this to game.
With the bonus plane kill at least it forces A & D having to take a plane casualty because both just save there planes stacks till the end of a battle. These plane kill bonus numbers may go up.

I just edited fig. It’s suppose to be on list
Fig C8 AD@5 ground AD@4 ships plus rest of stuff. It’s the naval values I forgot to list

@baron-Münchhausen
What you mean by OP ? Over powering ?
I can see most of your points but that is confusing to most what your suggestions are.

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@baron-Münchhausen
What you mean by OP ? Over powering ?
I can see most of your points but that is confusing to most what your suggestions are.

I should have use unbalanced instead of OP, just compare Fighter :
Fig C8 AD@5 ground AD@4 ships + if roll is a 2 or less get a DF plane kill too.
N Fig C8 AD@4 + if roll is a 2 or less get a DF plane kill too.

Tac & Dive C10 AD@5 + roll a 1 get a DF plane kill too. If roll is a 3 or less can pick target.

2 IPCs higher same combat values, but slightly different capacities.

At least, keeping same combat values, I woul increase TcB and Dive B in a way that any hit means from 1 to 5 pick target. Keeping “1” same as you above: “1” is also a hit on enemy’s plane if any.

About Fighter and Carriers, I see them as primarly targeting enemy’s aircraft.
So, that’s why I say, keeping same combat values but reverse special numbers toward their secondary targets: either ground (Fg) or naval ( Fg or Carrier).
So, in a case where there is only DDs attacking a carrier with 2 Fgs, a Carrier can roll a lucky “1” to hit a DD while Fgs can fully roll @4 to sink DD.
If planes are also attacking, in that case, the DDs are going to be shield by aircraft taking hits from Fg or Carrier AAguns, unless Fg getting “2” or less to sink a ship, too.

HTH, see my point.

Well for 2 icps more the Tac Dive getting to pick target 3 or less is worth the extra cost for what I’ve seen in games.
I’ll have to look at this again. Was gonna drop it to AD@4 and can pick target.
AD@5 and can pick target may be to strong. I’ll check it out still.
As for the secondary hits its getting to confusion now and besides your saying Figs get a normal AD@4 naval kill plus if roll is a @2 plane kill and instead you want the @2 to go against a ship so the ships take 2 hits and nothing against the planes ? Then you have more planes again and thats not the idea if I have this right.

As far as carriers getting a ship hit I can see that too because they did have 5" guns.
But its already hard now in game if you don’t bring attacking carriers to battles for plane kills. If you give a carrier a @1 bonus ship kill makes them stronger. I can still see giving them that. AA Carrier @1 bonus ship shot ain’t gonna do you know good with just planes attacking. Destroyers are now even bigger in battles as pawns for Capital ships to survive.

@baron-Münchhausen said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

@SS-GEN said in SS GEN's 1941 Global War Game:

Well for 2 icps more the Tac Dive getting to pick target 3 or less is worth the extra cost for what I’ve seen in games.
I’ll have to look at this again. Was gonna drop it to AD@4 and can pick target.
AD@5 and can pick target may be to strong. I’ll check it out still.
As for the secondary hits its getting to confusion now and besides your saying Figs get a normal AD@4 naval kill plus if roll is a @2 plane kill and instead you want the @2 to go against a ship so the ships take 2 hits and nothing against the planes ? Then you have more planes again and thats not the idea if I have this right.

As far as carriers getting a ship hit I can see that too because they did have 5" guns.
But its already hard now in game if you don’t bring attacking carriers to battles for plane kills. If you give a carrier a @1 bonus ship kill makes them stronger. I can still see giving them that. AA Carrier @1 bonus ship shot ain’t gonna do you know good with just planes attacking. Destroyers are now even bigger in battles as pawns for Capital ships to survive.

Not exactly what I was saying about Fg, but it can be simpler to use only “1” as special roll for a double hit.
I was saying that if there is no enemy’s plane, Fighter can do double hits upon naval or ground on a “1” roll.

To simplify your critical hit system, use only “1” roll.
Fighter C8 M5 A5 D5 targeting aircraft first. But, on “1” hit an additional unit, naval or ground.
Naval fighter C8 M4 A4 D5, … same.
Carrier A0 D3 targeting aircraft, but on “1” hit an additional naval unit. On “2 or 3”, if there is no aircraft, then no hit.
TcB C10 M5 A6 D5, pick ground or naval target, on “1”, hit an additional aircraft.
DiveB C10 M4 A5 D5 pick ground or naval target, on “1”, hit an additional aircraft.

Because aircraft and carrier have so low combat values I would put Fleet Carrier A0 D3* at 12 IPCs and Escort A0 D2* at 7 IPCs.

So where on same page there is only 1 die roll per piece.
For the fighters you want more kills early on planes. Is this your air superiority idea ?
Most guys won’t play that way.
Why N figs higher in defense ?
This due to yes they were pretty good ? Or part of your carrier weak defense. It should be the Tac five jobs to do most killing. 2 N figs should not be able to kill a BB that easy. So I can see N fig staying at D4 but increasing the Tac Dive picture target at a 5 period. You got to remember we have a good idea how these planes work now in games.
Tac bomber A6 picking piece is pretty strong.
Carriers I can see giving a 1 roll an extra naval ship hit but cost of 12 would make it where US could build a complete one at 28 icps instead of 34 icps. Is this based on all the US carrier builds in war. But then not right if rest countries get it. Could make this C12 an US NA instead.
I may raise the fig bonus plane kill to a 3 or less roll to counter your idea.
That’s why if carriers weak then u shouldn’t leave them undefended that’s why dest or huge like they were in war. Plus don’t leave your fleet in a sz without an AB on an island for 3 support figs for scramble or attack.

I’m also saying with the last list we used we had the best 2 games being the last 2 games we played. Im giving guys a huge amount of credit for dealing with these changes the last 4 games with dealing with 2 different scenarios of ship aa and plane vs plane. We are going to stick with what we have now so 4 new guys can get used to game to.

Well when I look at numbers my AC and N. fig or AC Dive bomb are just a bit better than g40. Save 6 Icps and 2 Icps.
Even better with AC C12. Save 8 Icps and 4 Icps & a bit stronger on defense.
Maybe I’m not seeing what your seeing.
Only way to make them stronger on defense is raising values.
G40
AC C16 A0 D2 .49 Now
AC C16 A1 .25 D3 .74
AC C14 A1 .32 D3 .96
AC C12 A1 .44 D2 .87
AC C12 A1 .44 D3 1.31

D12
AC C14 A0 D3 .48 Now
AC C14 A0 D4 .64
AC C14 A2 .32 D5 .80
AC C12 A2 .44 D5 1.09

This may not be the way above, but the other ships where screens for Carriers because yes the Carriers were weaker and making the planes even stronger defense is not the way to go keeping in mind the Carriers planes could be out of range a bit on defense, or reloading pay load or still on deck refueling even though rule says there always in air but there not all the time. My way of seeing it.

As far as planes taking hits first on planes that is leaning more towards Air Superiority and a game changer for battles.
I can see giving a fig a double hit if roll is a 1 too if no planes in battle on one side.

Another option is for figs and N. figs for plane kills is the roll is increased from a 2 to a 3.
Fig C8 AD@5 + roll a 3 or less get a plane kill too. This maybe to strong too. Did a few tests.
6 figs @2 = 1 ave bonus plane kill.
4 figs @3 = 1 ave bonus plane kill.

Also I looked at your idea of taking planes first on normal hits and looking back at the Moscow battle when it fell last game it would of been worse for Russia with having to take plane hits first. Ger had 13 figs and Russia 6. They would of lost them by round 3. I’m just saying with taking plane hits first this is a Air Superiority thing going on. Once Russia loses there figs then now Ger figs hits go towards ground. I do get it but I think its to strong.

I went back an edit numbers. Thought you said 2 hit pieces you double. Funny thing is when I double the BB that’s how I adjust for CR DD. Anyway another day for that.

I see like 4 options here. First one I would do is lower AC cost. D6 system.
AC C12 A0 D2 .87 vs DD C7 .98
Other option is lowering Planes costs ( lower D ) or raise DD costs.
AC C12 D2 .87
Fig C8 D4 1.50
Tac C8 D3 1.13 roll a 1 can pick target.
DD C7 A2 .98
AC C12 D2 .87 + 2 figs C16 D8 3.00 = C28 D10 3.87 1.6 hit
3 DD C21 D6 2.97 = 2.97 ave 1.0 hit
AC C12 D2 .87 + 2 Tacs C16 D6 = C28 D8 2.26 1.3 hit
3 DD C21 D6 2.97 = 2.97 ave 1.0 hit

3 DD C24 D6 2.25 = 2.25 ave 1.0 hit
Just thoughts here. Can change plane prices too.

As for your suggestions in above post will look at. Next game 2 weeks.