You should make one, I don’t have a 1940 copy but have friends who do and would love to have one. Still I always like to put in a Bismark no matter what time period, just to stress Britian because they have vast, if thin superiority in the Atlantic ocan.
AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals
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Ok in your 5 slot system, at which point can you invade them?
Sweden gave income to Germany in WWII right? But Allies didn’t invade them did they?adjacent territories - fixed, you’ve got a +1 +2 +3 scheme
frequent switching - fixed, can’t go back towards netural as soon as level +3 or -3?
occupying forces - fixed, since you can only have occupying force if you become full Axis or full Allies
But I worry 5 steps is too long for Neutrals to join up.
Now about back to 3 steps again, but air space before income.+3 Allies control
+2 Allies income
+1 Allies air space
0 Neutral
-1
-2
-3Now you have time to counter before physical advantage such as income comes into effect.
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Ok in your 5 slot system, at which point can you invade them?
++++ you can invade any neutral at any time… this makes the neutral automatically join the other side as an ally.
Sweden gave income to Germany in WWII right?
++++ yes they did
But Allies didn’t invade them did they?
++++ no and latter in the war when finland fell sweden was pressured in going back to neutrality ( not pro- axis)
adjacent territories - fixed, you’ve got a +1 +2 +3 scheme
frequent switching - fixed, can’t go back towards netural as soon as level +3 or -3?
++++ yes +3 or -3 right thats the boundry line.
occupying forces - fixed, since you can only have occupying force if you become full Axis or full Allies
++++ well yes.
But I worry 5 steps is too long for Neutrals to join up.
Now about back to 3 steps again, but air space before income.++++ the reasoning why the neutral stands at 5 and allies are 3 tiers is due too provide more decisions… example: the US player has shifted the neutral 2 one notch toward allies but the german can have a chance to reverse this with its own roll. many neutrals are not at zero… in fact perhaps one would be at zero… all the rest are 1-2 notches from either axis or allied camp. if we go with 3 possible outcomes we lose the “back and forth” action because it will be much harder to neutrals to get pulled back in line due to the one in 6 outcome. it will take about 3-4 rolls to succeed.
secondly i would not like to see too many neutrals change positions in the game…
+3 Allies control
+2 Allies income
+1 Allies air space
0 Neutral
-1
-2
-3Now you have time to counter before physical advantage such as income comes into effect
+++under that system their is no reaction time to possibly have any chance to make the ally move back the other way. its kinda like tech… once you get the heavy bombers… the other player has little chance to get the same unless he could have earlier chances to address the issue with his own rolls. play test the rules . do it for a 10 turn run and post results.
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@Imperious:
in fact perhaps one would be at zero… all the rest are 1-2 notches from either axis or allied camp. if we go with 3 possible outcomes we lose the “back and forth” action
Oh yeah I see. I guess we do need 5 slots.
you can invade any neutral at any time… this makes the neutral automatically join the other side as an ally.
And if you fly units through them, maybe free rolls for the other side?
Turn seqeunce
When do you decide on the rolls and when do you roll?
I think diplomacy is not like technology? So don’t need to decide at the beginning of the turn and see result at end of the turn.Maybe a “Phase 8: Diplomacy”.
Income, Military, starting neutrality
We have drafted the income list.
For military…so far I notice Argentina, Spain and Turkey should have a few INF?
And for starting neutrality…so far I notice Argentina and Sweden is pro-Axis?Afghanistan, Asia: 1 IPC
Angola, Africa: 0 IPC
Argentina, South America: 2 IPC + 2 INF?
Eire, Europe: 0 IPC
Himalaya, Asia: 0 IPC
Mongolia, Asia: 1 IPC
Mozambique, Africa: 0 IPC
Peru, South America: 1 IPC
Rio De Oro, Africa: 0 IPC
Sahara, Asia: 0 IPC
Saudi Arabia, Asia: 2 IPC
Spain, Europe: 4 IPC + 4 INF?
Sweden, Europe: 2 IPC
Switzerland, Europe: 1 IPC
Turkey, Europe: 3 IPC + 3 INF?
Venezuela, South America: 1 IPC -
That looks good… some of the forces are not accurate with my sources… ill convert these armies…
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you can invade any neutral at any time… this makes the neutral automatically join the other side as an ally.
And if you fly units through them, maybe free rolls for the other side?
Turn seqeunce
When do you decide on the rolls and when do you roll?
I think diplomacy is not like technology? So don’t need to decide at the beginning of the turn and see result at end of the turn.Maybe a “Phase 8: Diplomacy”.
Income, Military, starting neutrality
We have drafted the income list.
For military…so far I notice Argentina, Spain and Turkey should have a few INF?
And for starting neutrality…so far I notice Argentina and Sweden is pro-Axis?Afghanistan, Asia: 1 IPC, one infantry
Angola, Africa: 0 IPC
Argentina, South America: 2 IPC + 2 INF yes good
Eire, Europe: 0 IPC
Himalaya, Asia: 0 IPC
Mongolia, Asia: 1 IPC +1 infantry
Mozambique, Africa: 0 IPC
Peru, South America: 1 IPC + 1 infantry
Rio De Oro, Africa: 0 IPC owned by spain ( colony)
Sahara, Africa: 0 IPC
Saudi Arabia, Asia: 2 IPC
Spain, Europe: 4 IPC + 5 INF, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 DD, 1 transport
Sweden, Europe: 2 IPC + 3 infantry, 1 art
Switzerland, Europe: 1 IPC+ 1 infantry
Turkey, Europe: 3 IPC + 4 infantry, 1 tank, 1 fighter,1 art
Venezuela, South America: 1 IPC+ 1 infantry -
Spain, Sweden, and Turkey has significant military. Should they have a Victory City too?
Rio De Oro being a colony of Spain, any attack on either the colony or Spain by one team should bring them both to the other team?
Where shall Spain’s navy be and can you attack them?
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Spain, Sweden, and Turkey has significant military. Should they have a Victory City too?
++++ those nations had significant military… id add a victory city in ankarra and madrid… most strategic wargames like this have that
Rio De Oro being a colony of Spain, any attack on either the colony or Spain by one team should bring them both to the other team?
++++ right attack on either is an attack on spain
Where shall Spain’s navy be and can you attack them?
++++ in port
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++++ those nations had significant military… id add a victory city in ankarra and madrid… most strategic wargames like this have that
So no VC for Sweden.
Any of the Neutrals with insignificant or close to non-existent military deserve a VC?
Where shall Spain’s navy be and can you attack them?
++++ in portSo in effect these naval units are out of the game until Spain joins Axis or Allies.
Starting position
We are moving along great. Lets start plotting some starting positions of the neutrals. As mentioned so far identified are pro-axis Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Argentina?
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So no VC for Sweden.
Any of the Neutrals with insignificant or close to non-existent military deserve a VC?
++++ possibly persia ( mosul) as an oil center… problem is its easy to capture w/o military forces. Sweden is not so important its below the abstraction level ( not a primary important center)
So in effect these naval units are out of the game until Spain joins Axis or Allies.
Starting position
We are moving along great. Lets start plotting some starting positions of the neutrals. As mentioned so far identified are pro-axis Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Argentina?
++++ yes thinking same… switzerland should be one notch (-1) toward axis
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@Imperious:
Any of the Neutrals with insignificant or close to non-existent military deserve a VC?
++++ possibly persia ( mosul) as an oil center… problem is its easy to capture w/o military forces.[/quote
Um…Persia is not Neutral?
By the way I do have Persia as a Victory City in my version of VC list.
As for oil center…are you talking about “oil rules”?[/quote]
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Sorry gaffed… persia is UK… lets just use the VC list from phase one … BTW where is Duke? hes been gone for like 3 weeks with a few posts here and there.
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Duno. We’ll just have to wait for duke.
The other people are missing for most of the time too. -
Yes… he said he was going to be away for like 2 weeks… but its been longer.
Good thing we are capable and willing to get the job done in these conditions. You know me i never quit untill the last rule is finished. Im totally committed to finishing this project till the end.
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totally committed? really? I thought you were working on some map project :evil:
anyway we need your knowledge to position the rest of the neutrals
I would imagine most of the south Americans to be pro-Allies…but it seems Argentina was pro-Axis?
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Afghanistan, Asia: 1 IPC, one infantry
Angola, Africa: 0 IPC
Argentina, South America: 2 IPC + 2 INF yes good
Eire, Europe: 0 IPC
Himalaya, Asia: 0 IPC
Mongolia, Asia: 1 IPC +1 infantry
Mozambique, Africa: 0 IPC
Peru, South America: 1 IPC + 1 infantry
Rio De Oro, Africa: 0 IPC owned by spain ( colony)
Sahara, Africa: 0 IPC
Saudi Arabia, Asia: 2 IPC
Spain, Europe: 4 IPC + 5 INF, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 DD, 1 transport
Sweden, Europe: 2 IPC + 3 infantry, 1 art
Switzerland, Europe: 1 IPC+ 1 infantry
Turkey, Europe: 3 IPC + 4 infantry, 1 tank, 1 fighter,1 art
Venezuela, South America: 1 IPC+ 1 infantryThis is the list: ill edit it latter after more research
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I would imagine most of the south Americans to be pro-Allies…but it seems Argentina was pro-Axis?
Brazil was actually led by a semi-dictator person and at the beginning of the war the leaned towards Germany. Germany started losing though so Brazil sent 25,000 men from their FEB to help the Allies.
As for starting units of neutral nations, I think Mongolia shouldn’t have units. Ireland or Eire should have some INF and ART (they had the IRA) and they favor Germany because they want to take N Ireland back from the British.
Saudi Arabia should have a couple of INF (and are you adding spc units? Cavalry is a good idea, the Polish, Russians, and Arabians used horses so they should have cavalry).
Spain is pro-Axis since Germans helped them during the Spanish Civil War, Argentina is too because they want to get Falklands from British. Sweden and Switz should be completely neutral though, especially Switz since even their flag (equilateral cross) is a symbol of peace and neutrality. Sweden also
adopted a policy of neutrality since the Napoleonic Wars, though their policy was armed neutrality (they created the Per Albin Line to defend against Germany).Turkey is pro-Axis since the Ottoman Empire was crushed by Allies during the Great War.
According to the Operations manual some neutral territories are impassable for geographic reasons. Maybe adding upgrades that give your troops skis or mountain gear or desert equipment so they can capture the Sahara for example?
Link that might help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_Powers–countries that were sattelites to, helped, or conquered by Germany -
Actually Gen Patch the Rationale behind having the Swiss Pro-Axis is not necessarily because they supported the Nazis but because they provided the Germans with War Materials at a cost which probably cost the Germans in the long run (Coal) but it still supported them none the less… I personally would have them have 85 Infantry, all of which roll at 5 with Sneak Attack (Because of Mountain Guerrilla Combat) but ofcourse that won’t fly… If you guys want a detailed info list of Diplomatic Relations between the Latin American and South American and The USA look at this:
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-WH-Frame/USA-WH-Frame-8.html
GG
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Afghanistan, Asia: 1 IPC, one infantry zero neutral
Angola, Africa: 0 IPC +1 neutral
Argentina, South America: 2 IPC + 2 INF yes good
Eire, Europe: 0 IPC , 1 infantry +3 pro british
Himalaya, Asia: 0 IPC +1 neutral impassible except by planes
Mongolia, Asia: 1 IPC +1 infantry//// +1 – somewhat pro soviet
Mozambique, Africa: 0 IPC /// +1 neutral
Peru, South America: 1 IPC + 1 infantry /// +1 neutral
Rio De Oro, Africa: 0 IPC owned by spain ( colony) (same as spain)
Sahara, Africa: 0 IPC Vichy french -1 slightly leaning toward axis
Saudi Arabia, Asia: 2 IPC +1 pro UK
Spain, Europe: 4 IPC + 5 INF, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 DD, 1 transport -2 neutral leaning toward germany
Sweden, Europe: 2 IPC + 3 infantry, 1 art -2 neutral leaning toward axis
Switzerland, Europe: 1 IPC+ 1 infantry -1 slight in axis but neutral Note: zero would be ok too
Turkey, Europe: 3 IPC + 4 infantry, 1 tank, 1 fighter,1 art -1 neutral leaning to axis
Venezuela, South America: 1 IPC+ 1 infantry +1 leaning allies -
hehe Imperious you forgot to comment on their ideas on Eire and Mongolia…
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I added them to the revised neutral list. comments noted.
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