Post League Game Results Here

trulpen

@gamerman01 said in Post League Game Results Here:

AD, I can ease the suffering a bit by giving you 2 points for ABH instead of 0, since he was tier 1 a few years ago. In case he doesn’t finish 3 games this year…

Hey, koala is atleast tier 1, likely E, but maybe won’t finish 3 games this season either. Just sayin’…

DizzKneeLand33

Hey, I clearly finished 3 games. Just sayin. :P

gamerman01

@akreider2 said in Post League Game Results Here:

@Amon-Sul Right, I’m talking about the League scoring system excluding losing games, not you.

??? No one is excluding losing games lol
I just forgot about you guys for a few weeks. Look at the top of the spreadsheet - it always says when it was last updated, thanks

gamerman01

@trulpen said in Post League Game Results Here:

@gamerman01 said in Post League Game Results Here:

AD, I can ease the suffering a bit by giving you 2 points for ABH instead of 0, since he was tier 1 a few years ago. In case he doesn’t finish 3 games this year…

Hey, koala is atleast tier 1, likely E, but maybe won’t finish 3 games this season either. Just sayin’…

See, AD, I risked opening this can of worms by making an exception for you. Hope you’re feeling the love

trulpen

@gamerman01 said in Post League Game Results Here:

@trulpen said in Post League Game Results Here:

@gamerman01 said in Post League Game Results Here:

AD, I can ease the suffering a bit by giving you 2 points for ABH instead of 0, since he was tier 1 a few years ago. In case he doesn’t finish 3 games this year…

Hey, koala is atleast tier 1, likely E, but maybe won’t finish 3 games this season either. Just sayin’…

See, AD, I risked opening this can of worms by making an exception for you. Hope you’re feeling the love

We can switch to an Elo-system and everyone will be happy. :)

gamerman01

@AldoRaine said in Post League Game Results Here:

@Amon-Sul That is no doubt some very unlucky dice but it seems silly to complain and call out the other player. This is a dice game after all. Good dice will overcome bad strategy but this doesn’t seem like the way to go. Not to mention there could be a lot of reasons this was a good strategic move even with unfavorable odds initially.

One thing to note though is that simulators like this have a hard time showing how critical the early rounds are in these battles. Especially when one army is attacking with a lot of units rolling 1’s. Keep in mind that every unit killed by the attacker removes a defender at 2 while every kill on defense only removes an attacker at 1. Large battles like this have a much flatter bell curve so to speak than most realize.

What do I know though, I am on a terrible losing streak and it is all the dices fault.

This is a good post, well said Aldo

gamerman01

Squeaky wheel gets the grease, Trulpen, unless it’s you

gamerman01

Don’t ELO systems always add to your rating if you win, no matter how weak the opponent? Encourages bottom feeders who get inflated ratings, no thanks.

akreider2

@gamerman01

I think I misinterpreted this. Apologies!

“However, against a single opponent, only best of 3 games will count (maximum of 2 wins for 1 player). This limit can be expanded when both you and your opponent have completed more league games:”

gamerman01

No problem, thanks akreider, I think I see what you’re saying. I thought I just confused you by not updating anything for a few weeks.

Sorry everybody, I’ll put it on my calendar, and maybe make it a habit to update every Sunday night or something (at a minimum)

akreider2

@gamerman01 A proper system should add to your ranking based on the probability of winning or losing. So if you play a very weak player and have a 1/1000 chance of losing, your ELO gain if you win should reflect that.

akreider2

@akreider2 And thus an ELO gain by a favored player in a match where they are expected to crush their opponent should be very small.

gamerman01

Yeah, that’s not how it works here. Unlike chess, we have a very small number of games played because this game takes a lot longer than chess. Not really comparable. This system really works well for our purposes, and if I get much more criticism, someone else is going to have to take over because I’m not even playing the game any more.

trulpen

@gamerman01 said in Post League Game Results Here:

Don’t ELO systems always add to your rating if you win, no matter how weak the opponent? Encourages bottom feeders who get inflated ratings, no thanks.

Not really.

Elo is a statistical model and rating change is based on the probability of win and loss.

In chess there is no such problem anyway. Sure, some guy wins 20 games against crappy opponents gaining 20 points, but then for some reason loses one game for -20 and it all gets square.

Usually even opposition is the best for game quality. The beauty of Elo is that it’s fully possible to play someone of clear lesser playing strength without automatically getting a ranking shift downwards like our system does now.

Main point being that if an excelling player takes it to heart to invest time to hone someone else’s skill by play, that’s possible with Elo, but not really with our present system.

Like my games with axis-dominion. They must be all a joke to him, but I appreciate that he takes the time to teach me some valuable lessons. If I were tier 2 or 3, I’m pretty confident it wouldn’t happen.

gamerman01

I hear you, and I’ve listened to these arguments for years. This is my philosophy, however. League ranked play is not the place to learn from a much stronger player - play outside of league ranked play if that’s what you want. As many hours as this game takes to play, a tier M really doesn’t need to be messing around with 2’s and 3’s, frankly there’s such a huge difference in ability they’re not even competitive games. League ranked play is intended for competitive play

I’ve never had ANYONE else pipe up and volunteer to handle all these calculations, updates, and rankings, so until that happens, my system stands.

trulpen

@gamerman01 said in Post League Game Results Here:

Yeah, that’s not how it works here. Unlike chess, we have a very small number of games played because this game takes a lot longer than chess. Not really comparable. This system really works well for our purposes, and if I get much more criticism, someone else is going to have to take over because I’m not even playing the game any more.

Actually :) there’s correspondence chess, which takes a lot longer than A&A. And that carries an Elo as well.

The trick I believe is rather to incorporate the element of luck, which is a lot less in chess, reflected in the ratings. But that’s no biggie. Just tweak the algorithm. Like I said before, I think @DizzKneeLand33 has done it already.

DizzKneeLand33

@gamerman01 said in Post League Game Results Here:

Yeah, that’s not how it works here. Unlike chess, we have a very small number of games played because this game takes a lot longer than chess. Not really comparable. This system really works well for our purposes, and if I get much more criticism, someone else is going to have to take over because I’m not even playing the game any more.

Okay, this is a slight fallacy. Back in the 1980’s when I started playing correspondence chess, there was an ELO system in place for both the USCF and the ICCF (international organization). My longest correspondence game (in time) ended in 2 years, 8 months (67 move draw). So, our games indeed do not take as long as that. ;)

For an ELO system to work for us, however, it has to take in account dice. So, a master beating a Class C should be minimal in gains, but yet it should be worth something, because the “master” is taking a dice chance of losing.

So, for those who want an ELO system, remember that this isn’t chess, it’s a strategy dice game.

trulpen

@gamerman01 said in Post League Game Results Here:

I hear you, and I’ve listened to these arguments for years. This is my philosophy, however. League ranked play is not the place to learn from a much stronger player - play outside of league ranked play if that’s what you want. As many hours as this game takes to play, a tier M really doesn’t need to be messing around with 2’s and 3’s, frankly there’s such a huge difference in ability they’re not even competitive games. League ranked play is intended for competitive play

I’ve never had ANYONE else pipe up and volunteer to handle all these calculations, updates, and rankings, so until that happens, my system stands.

Again, in chess tournaments grand-masters meet patzers. No problem.

I respect that you are not so keen on change. Hopefully there’s no hurt by discussing these matters though.

gamerman01

We rarely have any significant upsets in the tournaments at the end of the year, and the rankings have always been very successful in creating great matchups at the end of the year. I understand people are always looking for continuous improvement, and no matter what system is in place, there will be criticisms.

gamerman01

No hurt, I’m just kind of tired of defending my system for so many years.
It’s not chess, it’s not starcraft, there’s weaknesses in every system, but frankly I think this system is dynamite.

Length of game, I meant in hours of effort, not in how many years of correspondence - again, apples and oranges, you guys! lol

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