UK Strategy -"Middle Earth"

Thanks for the endorsements, wish I got so many working at Sprint!

Im not trying to dismiss any idea outright.  Sometimes a static plan (esp for allies) is dangerous

esp in G42 we are now challenging this idea that india is hopless by forumlating

a rescue plan via persia so J3 doesnt pull odds
a takeback plan so japan doesnt flow tanks into russia belly and get comfy
a responsive plan that lets UK get assertive/protective if japan is dumb enough to wait or focus elsewhere

buys are awesome but unlike G42, its UK3 before you can drop 1 guy on persia, iraq, or even egypt (assuming threat) so GHG plan covers UK3-7 and its a deep commit.  GHG plan does accomplish the above goals if we can threaten japans control of india but alot of games are over or nearly over by turn 7 (aaa games last longer than live ones usually)

will try to watch your video when not at work

@GeneralHandGrenade:

Actually I’ve never had to land a fighter on Moscow to this point. The Germans haven’t gotten close enough for me to have to do that. I am aware of that strategy though and I’m sure that some day I will have to use it if things don’t go well for Russia. Sending mechs and tanks into the Eastern Front is usually enough to stop the Germans and Italians. It’s surprising how easy it is to do the reverse can opener against them in Bessarabia and bust into the Balkans or Romania. With Russia able to build in the Ukraine, it’s a lot easier than having to march units from Berlin or Northern Italy.

You must be playing VERY weak German players.  Unless that country decides to do a Sea Lion attack, there is no way that Russia can prevent them from laying siege to Moscow.  Key to the German plan is buying 10 tanks/mechs in Germany on G2 and supporting the spearhead army with additional fast movers and/or additional planes purchased on G3-G5.  Italy should buy a tank and mech on I1 and use their four fast movers + planes to can open as necessary.

Buying a factory in Persia on UK2 is an excellent plan since the fighters can prevent Germany from taking Moscow and slow down efforts to move into the Middle East.  I am surprised that you would allow Italy to take Egypt early in the game.  Germany can usually land enough planes to prevent a counterattack until Italy can handle the situation themselves.

There is a general learning curve where Germany initially struggles against Russia.  Players frequently find themselves open to counter attack and sometimes see that Berlin gets captured by the Red Army.  I assure you that in a non-BM game with normal dice outcomes there is absolutely nothing sane that you can do to prevent Germany from marching:

G3: Eastern Poland
G4: Belarus
  R4: Russian troops must retreat to Moscow or else Italian canopers take Smolensk and German fast movers take the capitol
G5: Bryansk*  sometimes a few German fighters are required to support the Italian/German stack for this critical move.

After that point the realities of the game take over.  Against an aggressive Russian player who built too many artillery and didn’t obtain fighter support from other Allied players, Moscow will fall.  Otherwise, I besiege the capitol and head down to the oil fields with a sub-force.  I have played very aggressive Russian players who are willing to throw away large stacks of infantry to prevent Italian canopening, but that only hastens the eventual fall of Moscow.  They are throwing away a bunch of units that defend as 2s in return for a few German units that attack as 1s.

You can go through the battlecalcs for each round.  It isn’t too hard to figure out how big each German/Russian stack will be with the assumption that two or three German planes will be lost in the opening couple of rounds.  Do the exercise and see that your ambitious plans do not hold water.  I am sure that you merely have found novice opponents who misspend German money and build too much fleet, throw away the planes, or do other stupid things.

Generalhandgrenade. How about you just take a game with ABH to see how it goes?

Hey GHG, I know that you’ve been busy introducing these Middle Earth ideas, I’ve been so busy but wanting to learn more… at this point is it a legitimate power move, what are people saying in general about it, what victory tokens if any would it help capture or prevent, and most importantly… can you talk your teammates into doing it at the convention?

Thanks for the update, sorry for not reading everything through myself.

One of these days I need to go to Mt. Fairweather; perhaps I will have to look you up if logistics works out, GHG.

Your comment about the rapidly dying Italian canopener shows that you haven’t played that many strong opponents.  I rarely have issue with my four Italian fast movers running out of lives before I get to the Middle East. Sometimes the luck holds out and they can go all the way to Egypt. The main German stack moves on top of them so there are no opportunities to counter attack with either Russia or UK.  The only risky part of the early gameplan is on G5 when German planes must be used to reinforce the forces in Bryansk.  That gives the Allies a narrow window where they can launch an attack into Western Europe and not be as easily expelled.

I have found that people make far fewer mistakes when playing TripleA since it is easier to see all of the pieces and also to run many battlecalcs to see if there are any vulnerabilities.  Barring any crazy dice rolls, the good League players will always be able to either capture Moscow or push deep into the Middle East.  That doesn’t mean that the Axis automatically wins, especially in BM games where the Allies get so many additional objectives. Still, it has been a very long time since I lost as Axis in a no-bid game.

Anyway, back to your original discussion on the Middle Earth plan, I don’t see why you would take Iraq on UK1 instead of waiting until UK2 when you have more forces freed up for the attack.  What is the rush to take that territory?  Personally I love to strafe Iraq with UK and have a Russian fast mover capture it for the bonuses.

Yes UK should get a N.O. of 3 icps for controlling so many Middle East territories from the oil.

To bad I don’t play G40. I would try out this stuff GHG. I do have my 40 game. Maybe I’ll look at that and see if it will work in my game.  In my 39 game I can fortify Calcutta to the point of killing at least all of Japan’s ground and half of there planes if they want India.

I take it you bring back most US Pacific fleet to Atlantic side just on turn 1 and go for Rome ? I also want to try this. Nobody has done it in our games.

OK  We do the same. Thanks.

@GeneralHandGrenade:

It’s more a matter of standing up to the Germans instead of running back to Moscow and hiding behind their Mommy’s skirts. You buy a combination of infantry and offensive units (tanks, artillery) and continually counter-attack the Germans where they expose the most tanks. You hit them with everything that can reach and then they are stuck rebuilding for yet another turn, and then another. You’re hanging onto more of your money while they are getting less of it so you can continue to make those kinds of purchases. Next thing you know help has arrived on the Western Front and up from the Middle East. Those 10 tanks of yours will die as soon as they hit the border and you’ll be saying to me “What, are you crazy? You’re not supposed to be able to do that!” Then I hit the next batch of tanks that roll over the border. Try it sometime in one of your games and see how effective it can be as a deterrent against the Germans. Or don’t. It’s your choice if you think there’s no way that Russia can possibly stand up to the Germans. Hitler didn’t either.

Frankly, if your opponents are exposing German tank stacks to counterattack with no or light casualty bufferage, your opponents aren’t that good.

Marsh

@GeneralHandGrenade:

No I pile the America Pacific fleet in Honolulu and shuck 2 dudes there every turn. If you build up the ground forces there and on Sydney then Japan can’t take the 6 Victory Cities they need to win the game. I build up the navy in the Atlantic first to the point where they are dropping units off in Europe and then I turn to building the Pacific fleet. I do try to put a boat on Honolulu every turn or 2 leading up to that so Japan can’t overwhelm them.

Truism.

However, doing only this does allow Japan a free hand to keep pushing the Middle East or Africa once India falls, as they know your plan is simply to prevent a Pacific victory and so they only have to devote enough resources to hold the money islands and keep your US fleet at bay.

Marsh

GHG, I love to play UK, it is by far my favorite power to play too. I like the challenge of playing a power that is all over the map, and has many strengths and weaknesses. I like to gather/build my resources, and make a difference. The Mid East is a great place to focus your energy on because as you said you can interconnect Egypt, S Afr, Persia/Iraq, India and S Russia rather easily. You can get ftrs to Calcutta or Moscow when the time comes, and an Expeditionary force up through Caucasus to keep the axis away from the oil NOs.

With that said, I agree with the others and I don’t see your aggressive Russian strat working in most the FTF games I play in (saw your Russian U-tube video). First off I generally don’t sacrifice  the one Russian inf pickets at every territory on the front unless we are talking about one of my minor ICs, and they can somehow reinforce it (maybe through the Baltic Sea). I want the Germans to blitz through and expose their tanks to counter attack (which they won’t do). I do like to buy some air and art w/Russia as you do for attacks of opportunity, but you really rarely get to do a major hit and run unless certain conditions are met. Say the Germans try a 2-3 prong attack at the front leaving themselves too thin and exposed? Maybe they have no navy in the Baltic to amphib/reinforce, and/or no Italian can openers leaving them w/o air cover at the front then yea you start liking your chops as Russia. This BTW was the perfect storm displayed in your Russian video that allowed you to counter attack the two German held territories and squash the German advance the turn after Barbarossa started (plus you got pretty friendly Russian dice lol).

Most games I see the Italians open up doors for the Germans who then super stack E Poland, and drive one territory at a time towards Moscow taking the lands as the Russians evacuate. Why I buy some Russian air and art is so if the Germans split their forces or splinter off to take the oil territories I might be able to do a hit and run, or trade my former minor ICs keeping them from building there for a turn or two. Of course a strong UK presence in the Mid East can save the day, so I do like that part of your plan.

In your overall allied strat you have the US playing mostly defense in the Pac, and making landings on the Euro side. Have you ever had the Japanese by-pass India and punch into Persia? Our Japanese seem to wander over to the Mid East/Africa if left unchecked lol.